Gotcha ,My Definition of free-fall and serious decline is happening live as we speak up the road at the Grattan "Pot-Hole".
Like i posted above i accept some mistakes have been made ,last year we made the CC final and were in the qualifying semi for the GF after one of the worst seasons in our history for injuries to key players so i don't class that as "failure".
This year is where i agree re-mistakes especially recruitment/retention but that alone points to transitional/dip to me not freefall and it's interesting to see how GH and the club react but it's not beyond repair either.
Don't get me wrong i am NOT saying everything is fine and dandy and GH is beyond question/critic i just don't think it's either terminal or as bad as you and Sal make out.
As for the union side i attended a couple of games last year and many i spoke to thought that squad could/should of stayed up so we have to agree to disagree.

See [url=http://www.caddickconstruction.co.uk/our-history.aspxthis?[/url This I reckon is the one source of opinion about GH's performance that matters.

This... is irrelevant tripe I'm afraid




It appears you're sure trying.

Hang on a minute, let's just make sure you are sure what you are saying here, because you make a valid point.

2005 Bradford were Super League Champions
2006 Bradford finished 4th and reached the final elminator
2007 Bradford finished 3rd and CC semi final
2008 Bradford finished 5th
2009 Bradford finished 9th
2010 Bradford finished 10th

In contrast

2009 Leeds were Super League Champions
2010 Leeds finished 5th and reached the final eliminator
2011 ?? No chance of Leeds finishing higher than 5th.

Bradford went from Champions to 5th in 3 seasons, we look like doing it in 2.

I would say your point should be taken on board considerably and learnt from very quickly.

Not that straightforward though is it?

Afterall Hetherington is much more than a mere paid employee from what I can gather.

Probably more chance of Caddick walking away.

_________



Are you sure? And why have Bradford got a Challenge Cup Semi credit and Leeds received nothing for going one stage further?

Does Leeds Rugby turn a profit? Do many other clubs? Is success index linked to funds in the club? Is success and profit linked to numbers on turnstiles on matchday or is it also to do with the "Executive" side of the business?

Since when did going through a transition whilst redeveloping the ground whilst still turning a profit denote the failings of a COO?

He's a CEO not a COO.

And what's this weeks lottery numbers? I ask because you obviously can see into the future. How else can anybody read a set of acounts that has not happend yet?

So what?

You've not measured like for like - in case you haven't noticed, Bradford's free fall is still happening and they could soon hit the depths of SL. If it wasn't for Cru and Wakey's financial problems things could be a lot worse for them.

For once I agree with KS in that we're still better than the rest of the teams beneath us, including Bradford. I can't see us dropping off the pace anything like them.

So what? How more like for like do you want it.

The situation isn't are we the same as Bradford, christ would you find that acceptable? The question should be how do we stop ourselves doing a Bradford. We are already declining faster than they did initially, it's what happens in the next 3 years now as to whether we have done as bad.

In fairness, their decline was accelerated, by all accounts, by the disintegration of their business, which I don't believe we're facing.

I do agree that there needs to be evidence of re-building, otherwise it will be unclear what we're in a transition to. But I don't think we're on the same slippery slope as Bradford, whatever the on-field issues may be.

We must agree to disagree - I think a good employer considers it obligation to its employees as going well beyond statutory. Regarding Burgess we don't know what is meant by a disappointing - anything approaching rattles and cot are pure speculation. We have no idea how hard he is training and what has been said to him as to why he isn't being picked.

On Cross - there have been no rumours of discipline issues - so I think that is a red herring tbh

Any successful enterprise is constantly striving to maintain its position - they don't accept cycles as an excuse, Saints have been a challenging side throughout the whole of the SL era - they have won more trophies than Leeds during this time with a significantly lower revenue stream. For me it isn't about winning it is about being competitive - Saints have been competitive throughout the SL era.

What I find disappointing is the inability to build when the club has the opportunity - the appointment of McDermott is a backwards step compared to the previous coach IMO. The contract renewal of poorly performing players like Senior, Ali, Kirke, etc is hardly building for the future.

Gotcha you're a fan on a website going on like you're a shareholder in an annual meeting.

Get a grip on yourself man, it's pathetic.

I care. I'm bothered. It's not like I'm not bothered if we lose. It's just I'm a happy guy. I enjoy my life. Leeds is a big part of it and has been since before I could walk, but it's not the ONLY part of my life. I have other things to keep me happy if we lose. I just try to stay happy and get on with my life win or lose. The winning is a buzz, sure, but I try to push the losing straight out of my mind and get on with my weekend. I don't sulk all day Saturday if we got battered. Some think that makes me a bad fan. Up to them really.

What's pathetic is your constant obsession with me. I'm sorry but I'm married and not interested.

I don't see anyone on here saying things haven't been good in the past, but with all businesses you cannot rest on your laurels. The question is can this team beat any of the top 4 sides when it matters - evidence this year would suggest not. Then the question is how will a disappointing season effect corporate revenue next year - as Bradford have shown the downward spiral can gather speed pretty quickly.

The other concern would be Caddick - given the virtual non existence of new business building does he have the liquidity to keep supporting the RU or will this also have to be supported by the Rhinos as has been the case recently.

Again, Bradford's downward spiral seems to have been led by the off-field business, which, as I understand it (hearsay, obviously, I won't pretend any inside knowledge) was well underway when they won the 2005 GF.

Again, I don't disagree that the on-field business is key and that it will ultimately affect the off-field business, but I think we may need a little perspective before we compare with Bradford.

The word "decline" keeps getting banded around - from three titles in consecutive years and four in six years, there was only one way to go.

Draw analogies to Saints all you like, but how many Grand Finals have they won since 2004? If you're seriously suggesting you'd rather be "competitive" every year than win the top prize three years running you need your bumps feeling.

This "decline" resulted in Leeds making the Challenge Cup final, winning a playoff game away at the league leaders and getting within 80 minutes of Old Trafford, despite losing their two best players for the business end of the season. Wigan and Warrington apart, I'm guessing every other club in SL would have quite happily swapped places with this "team in decline".

Yes, there is work to be done restructuring an ageing side and a couple or recruitment/retention decisions haven't worked out, but FFS that's sport. Some people have been around long enough to know that no team ever remains dominant for long unless they have a massive advantage over the competition (Wigan in the 80s/90s for example).

Is completely right. Last time I looked Leeds weren't struggling financially with twin millstones of a radically expensive white elephant of a ground and a radically expensive court case and subsequent costs due to a white elephant of a player!

Leeds are just beginning to go through a transitional phase. When you look at the history of the club you get more perspective. Perhaps it's not your turn to be in the top 4 for a bit, but I'm sure you'll be back as will we.

I know you care, Lee Smith never shuts up about you caring.

Hold on - we don't need Bratfud fans coming on here talking sense...can't you see we're busy wallowing in self-loathing and self-pity

Peacock and?

Obviously you can't be including McGuire in that statement as he played in all but the final 80 minutes.

Burgess?

See! Bless Smithy and all his greatness. He's the key to my eternal optimism and happiness.

Donald.

Nah Donald was on the team-sheet.

Do you know who was overlooked in the final two games though?

No wonder you had a smile on your face nobody's been able to shift since.

Andy last year was a decline on 2009, 2011 is a further decline on 2010. This is all I am suggesting - for me the decline is now a freefall and I fail to see how that is going to be arrested any time soon. All I see is continual re-signing of aged players who are being shown to be not able to compete by the better sides.

As the one of the biggest clubs in the competition we should not be a position where major restructuring is required - this should be an ongoing process, the fact we have so many players OOC at the same time is poor management. The writing was on the wall all the way through last season - but injuries were used as a form of denial for the decline

It is not about domination it is about competitiveness - and no one can honestly say we have been competitive when we have faced the better sides. What has been disappointing is the manner of the defeats to Warrington, Huddersfield and Saints and how quickly these sides have passed us.

I don't dislike him. I just think he's overrated. Very much like U2 (the band!). They're a band. Good on them. Occasionally do something fantastic. But mainly, just a half decent band. Not "THE GREATEST BAND IN THE WORLD!" We need bands like that. Sure. Just like we need players like Smith. I just think he seems to get FAR more praise than he deserves.

Maybe sometimes I go a bit OTT on the criticism, but that's only to try and redress the balance of all the love he seems to get. He's fine. But that's it. Just fine. Massively overrated.