You are right, google is your friend, £12k

[urlhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/why-salford-let-ambler-go-976430[/url

I think thats a big assumption. If he knuckles down, and plays with better players he could have a big impact

Chase is quoted in this morning's LE and doesn't sound too happy with his performance Friday last.
- lacking composure
- improvising when not needed
- poor kicking
- not smart enough.
I can't fault his honesty but most observers must have seen these shortcomings fairly frequently during his career. He's capable of brilliance for sure but, for a player of 27, these are fairly serious limitations if they're cropping up regularly.

Did someone seriously once tout Joe Westerman as the next Paul Sculthorpe?

Guffaw.

Are you saying such comparisons were not being made between a young Westerman and a young Sculthorpe? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ap ... uperleague www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... great.html news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/rug ... 134560.stm

Are you saying such comparisons were not being made between a young Westerman and a young Sculthorpe? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ap ... uperleague www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... great.html news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/rug ... 134560.stm

I always saw Westerman as a wide running second row, particularly effective down the right hand side. Very different to Sculthorpe who was more a central playmaker, or Farrell who could work as a central playmaker or run wide left.
They all played loose forward, and they all kicked goals. All different in terms of how they played on the field.

Quote ="tvoc"Are you saying such comparisons were not being made between a young Westerman and a young Sculthorpe? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ap ... uperleague www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... great.html news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/rug ... 134560.stm'" No, I was saying how laughable they were.

Quote ="tvoc"Are you saying such comparisons were not being made between a young Westerman and a young Sculthorpe? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ap ... uperleague www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... great.html news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/rug ... 134560.stm'" No, I was saying how laughable they were.

Westerman was a loose, who also played six. He could also play centre and back row. Sculthorpe was a loose, who also played six, started career in centres and also played in back row.

Because Sculthorpe was a star player coming to the end of his career, and a new player had emerged with such talent who played the same positions, that was the reasoning for stating the new "Paul Sculthorpe".

Leroy was tagged the new Jason Robinson when he emerged.

In what way were the comparisons laughable at the time they were being made?

Westerman was an outstanding prospect playing a significant role in Castleford's return to SL at the end of his debut season of 2007, winning both the club and league young player of the year awards. In 2008 he also won the Super League Young Player of the Year Award as well as making the initial train-on squad for England's World Cup campaign but missed out on selection through injury.

His till then quite meteoric rise appeared to stall after he suffered an on-field fit V St Helens during the 2009 season.

Ricky Bibey.

Tim Smith was finished in the NRL before he left regardless of 'off-field issues'. He had a great rookie season, and then was found out for having no running game whatsoever and basically vanished. Are you seriously suggesting he wouldn't be in the NRL if any side considered him even half decent?

I hate to sound like AP, but I stand by what I say - I don't rate any English SL 6 or 7 that highly. Sinfield provides control but to be frank if we had a more 'talented' halfback who didn't hide or start making panic passes under pressure he wouldn't play there for England. Thurston and Cronk provide control but are also devastating passers of the ball.

That's not dissing what Sinfield does for Leeds at all. Without him we wouldn't have been champions 6 times. I'd say he'd also get a gig in the NRL, but there's no way he'd be a star player IMO.

He would. But never in a million years would it be at stand off.

They did, as they did with Brett Seymour.

Tim Smith wasnt finished in the NRL regardless of off field issues, he originally came over as a big talent with off-field issues ala Jamie Lyon but absolutely stank the place out, went back, spent a year in the reserves at Brisbane before becoming a first grader again at Cronulla then coming back to SL.

So yes, I am suggesting Tim Smith could be a unarguable failure in SL and go back to the NRL and get a first grade contract. Because he did that.

There are some real top quality players in the NRL, some absolute stars, I’ll readily admit we don’t really have anyone on the level of Thurston, but the better players in SL are superior players to some of those first graders in the NRL.

Last week saw players like Josh Reynolds, James Maloney, Jarrod Mullen, Luke Walsh, Jeff Robson, Albert Kelly, Luke Kelly, Beau Henry, all lining up at 6 or 7. They aren’t striking fear in to anyone.

Seems to be a pretty unhappy pattern forming. Lesson seems to be dont pay for young props.

Away to huddersfield in the next round.

That was one of the most embarrassing draws ever.

Number upside down, having Hull KR away at Workington, when Widnes had already been drawn away to Workington.

Dear me.

Agreed Gotcha - what a shambles

however Full Draw:

Catalan V York

Hull V Wakefield

Workington V Widnes

Hull KR V Wigan

London V Bradford

Warrington V Salford

Huddersfield V Leeds

Sheffield V Halifax

I went to the Batley v Hudds game yesterday, Hudds were very poor

No doubt they wont play that bad again all season, should be a good game and on TV

And then the presenter apologising for them having to have the draw on in the first place??

Jeez

Tim Smith's issue is his non-existent defence. Looking at the NRL half the sides have no half backs that are any good - Titans, Newcastle, Eels, Penrith, Brisbane, Canberra, Bulldogs, St George where Soward is average at best.

No, Tim Smith's issue was that he was found out as a halfback who never took on the line at all - meaning that defences never had to worry about tackling him because he either passed or kicked the ball every time he got it. I remember Peter Sterling - originally a huge fan of his because of his kicking game - ripping into him in his second year because of that exact issue.

Scott Prince at the Broncos is far better as a ball-handler on his day than anyone in SL. Peter Wallace is a poor runner but a very good organiser and kicker - he'd be at least as good as Dobson in SL. Sandow on attack can be awesome, as can Albert Kelly - both not so good in defence. McCrone (a super prospect) and Campese (brilliant but terrible run with injuries) at Canberra are a better 6/7 than anything in SL.

Soward is not 'average at best' - at his best he has the best kicking game in the NRL and is a good passer of the ball, and has just been signed by Penrith for 4 years to rebuild their team around. He's been playing without a genuine 7 for several years. I didn't see Phil Gould rushing to sign a British halfback to do the same.

I'm not arguing all NRL halfbacks are great, but to suggest for a second that the best British halfbacks are comparable to the best NRL players, or that the Aussies currently in SL are as good as those in the NRL is laughable. Because we have one piece of incontravertable evidence available - not a single British halfback in the NRL, nor those Aussies currently playing in SL being targeted by clubs you claim to have poor halfbacks. Its not 'off-field' issues - if it was Todd Carney would be playing for the Cats instead of being courted by a number of clubs.

Agree with all of that, the best half back on his day in SL comparable to an average NRL half is Chase, the best British has back (not inc the farce of Chase rep Englanf) is Brough, the problem is neither are consistent.

Sinfield playing at 6 for England shows more about the structure of SL and than his ability as a half, good player though he is.

I don't think anyone is suggesting the the half backs in SL are comparable to the best in the NRL but likes of Burrow/McGuire, Briers/Brough are every bit as good as the likes of Sandow, Kelly et al. The fact that there are no british half back in the NRL doesn't mean they are not good enough it could be the likes of Burrow/McGuire/Briers/Brough etc simply don't want to go to the NRL?

How can you say Prince has a passing game he seldom passes - the outside backs at the Titans never got the leather from him - and even rarer does he give a real quality one. He should be in union or rules he loves punting the high ball, the less said about his defence the better.

Penrith have gone so far backwards under Gould that him signing Soward is hardly a ringing endorsement.

How many games did Tim Smith play in the NRL ? His defence makes McGuire look like Marc Glanville. If Tim Smiths defence was good enough for first grade NRL then that aspect wouldn't be a problem for McGuire or Burrow

Marc Glannive wished he tackled like McGuire. Forget copy book, head highs the way to go.

McGuires the real enforcer in our team.