Eastwood was a replacement for ellis, thats a step sideways, should have also added to the pack, still no centre, winger on wrong wing etc.

The point is Richie he also asked you some question which given you did not answer - not unlike the points I made above - obviously had you on the back foot - it is obvious if you have a bigger squad you can rest and rotate why did we do so well in 2004 - Smith hardly fielded the same team 2 weeks running - it is great to develop players if they have the ability to be developed if they don't you either replace with the appropriate quality or as in Leeds' case you go backwards simple really - this seem a concept that is pretty lost on you!!!

The first time Smith did it in 2004 was from the FE to the GF where not only did he select the same starting 13 for the first time at Leeds he also stuck with the same 17. There again McClennan hasn't used the same 17 either in 2009 to this point. He did have the same starting 13 V Catalans and St Helens in the cup though.

No you wont. You'll go back to supporting Halifax when the trophies dry up.

Hi Danny!!

Who did St helens sign close season?

They lost Fozzard and Talau and signed Puletua?

Yes but they have cleverly moved Gilmour into the centres who is a better player in that position than Talau who had started to slide and have a better, younger more mobile pack.

Eastwood and some of the youngsters also look a better than the options that Leeds have (look at the Leeds reserves - there is nothing there).

Fozzard had never been more than a decent squad player who has been more than adequately replaced by Puletua.

St Helens have a First Team Squad of 30 Players, Plus 3 players loaned out in Super League:
Steve Tyrer, Matty Smith (Celtic Crusaders)
Scott Moore (Huddersfield Giants)

Leeds Rhinos have a First Team Squad of 24 Players...

So quantity means quality then?

No it means they have more strength in depth and a variety of players to call upon who can fit into the team with ease and do a good job in Super League...

Having 30 players doesnt mean strength in depth. The extra players may or may not be [i[/ie.

Hence why i wrote

But if they havent been called on how do you know they are good enough.

Quantity does not mean quality.

Said the Bishop to the Choirboy.

Tad was all over the place last night, and couldn't keep a consistent line of questioning or opinion.

Look: We have achieved success in the past by use of a big squad and player rotation, and we have also achieved success with a smaller active squad a more consistent lineup. We have also seen failure come about with both a thin squad, and failure come about with repeated rotation of a larger squad.
Part of our problem this year has been we're disorganised in our RHS defence, possibly because we have used four different players at centre on that side. Perhaps less options for that position might have even helped us.


The real point, which would have got to if you could have answered the questions, is that it isn't the size of the quality of the squad that's hurting us. Measure the talent of the squad we have available, and it's clearly better than twelve teams in the league, and a close call on the last.
The question is, why aren't they playing like it?

I reckon this has something to do with it [urlhttp://viewtopic.php?t=370008[/url

If Tad had played along, we'd have seen that replacements don't always need to come from external signings.

There are still many that think any player leaving, for whatever reason, must be replaced by an external signing. Leaves you wondering what the acedemy is for.

Yes because the world famous Leeds conveyor belt of up and coming stars is really turning them out, have you seen the reserves this year, they are criminally poor.

But hey, in your world lets throw them in anyway.

That reminds me, next time I am asked to headhunt a Senior Manager I will bring forward a YTS.

I never said it does...


Youngsters like Kyle Eastmond,Chris Dean, Gareth Frodsham, Gary Wheeler, Tom Armstrong, Matty Ashurst, Andrew Dixon and Jonny Lomax have all played in the St Helens First Team this season and haven't looked out of place also Jacob Emmitt but i don't know how he performed...

I completely agree.

The Academy is there to support the first team squad at the club, supplying a constant flow of new blood. However that doesn't absolutely mean that external signings are never required, which appears the logical conclusion you maybe heading towards.

In the Championship winning seasons of 2004, 2007 and 2008 Webb, Bai, Donald, Toopi, McKenna, Senior, Dunemann, Leuluai, Peacock, McDonald, Thackray, Furner, Adamson, Poching, Ellis, Lauitiiti and Anselme were not products of the famed Leeds Academy production line but they still had their part to play in the squad's ultimate success in those seasons.

It's all about having the correct balance and when the quality is lacking internally then it has to be an acceptable alternative to look outside the club.

Hence the second point about squad quality.
It isn't that lack of quality that's hurting us, and bringing in another player to also play well below his potential isn't going to help, and if it's a short term signing it may well hinder our long term success.

I think it is the lack of quality to some degree - especially in the forwards. I think there are a few forwards that have been terrific over the last few years but are not quite where they were last year or the year before. I believe with the loss of Ellis (and Scruton to some degree) this has had a cumulitive effect which is what we are seeing now. There are also some players who have not kicked on as we would like so far this year. I don't want to go through individuals, but it's an overall effect for me.

anyone can beat anyone on there day

A mid season signing wouldn't necessarily need to be short term. From the Leeds experience Lauitiiti, Thackray and Toopi all arrived midway through a season and none of those were short term signings. The only short term mid season signing I can recall recently was Anselme and that was a loan deal to cover several back row absentees.

No-one is unavailable at the moment (Smith apart) but the squad is struggling to perform to an acceptable level consistently. Why is that and what are the options available to the club?