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Quote ="DoubleAone"I have just rewatched the game on my version
 Perhaps I should lend you my copy.
the 6 handling errors 2 of which were clear scoring chances for the wingers but they both sailed way overhead into touch IIRC.'"
Perhaps you should lend it to Opta - www.superleague.co.uk/report/9915
As a stat man from back in the day I'd be interested to hear how much credibility you would personally afford to an organisation who found only the one error in McGuire's performance on Friday? |
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Quote ="DoubleAone"I have just rewatched the game on my version
Perhaps I should lend you my copy.
the 6 handling errors 2 of which were clear scoring chances for the wingers but they both sailed way overhead into touch IIRC.'"
Perhaps you should lend it to Opta - www.superleague.co.uk/report/9915
As a stat man from back in the day I'd be interested to hear how much credibility you would personally afford to an organisation who found only the one error in McGuire's performance on Friday? | |
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"I'm in full agreement with this. Drawing attention to his drop off in pace for me displays a gross misunderstanding of his role in the team. A bit like the poster on this thread who criticised Sinfield for a lack of pace. Let's face it, McGuire's loss of pace has been apparent for the last four or five seasons plus. If pace was that essential to his game he'd be gone.
What the coaching staff are clearly hoping for is a return to the form McGuire showed in 2010 - when IMO he was crucial to making Leeds tick as a play-maker. In that season he was responsible for creating a lot of tries for other players - through his passing and kicking games. Unfortunately it all ended with the 'Rugby gods' incident, a major reason IMO why we failed in the play-offs that season. Since then he's struggled to find a consistent place in the team through recurrent injury and his form has been pretty erratic. If he can stay injury free for a reasonable period, there's no reason why he can't get back into form. Half backs go in and out of form at the best of times. Obviously no-one should have a right to a place irrespective of form but I don't think it's time to drop him just yet on the basis of a one-off display.'"
I dont think anyone is advocating dropping him just yet and your "historical appraisal" may well be correct but thats the point its history and we should remain thankful for his past contributions over the last 10 years.
However we are looking forward to this season and if thats the job the coach as defined for him, ie just simply dropping off players inside or making a simple link pass out to a runner outside, then fine but based on the two games so far, when he has looked to add other facets to his game such as; breaking the line or hitting a wide runner close to the scoring line, or a short kicking game, then it has not yet been a great success. |
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Quote ="tvoc"Perhaps you should lend it to Opta - www.superleague.co.uk/report/9915
As a stat man from back in the day I'd be interested to hear how much credibility you would personally afford to an organisation who found only the one error in McGuire's performance on Friday?'"
None ! I cant be d looking at those  all I do know is that based on watching the game twice he clearly made several errors two of which were clear scoring chances had the ball found the man.
I think I assigned him 6 errors in total, twice he failed to retrieve a loose ball literally at his feet, one drop ball and three passes that went to ground. 2 in fact went into the stands whiich even Stevo could see. 
I presume they have only listed the one dropped ball but its always the ball carriers responsibilty in my book so I have assigned him the 3 stray passes as well
and when the ball is literally at your feet but you dont drop on it then in my book thats a huge error also!! even Carney thought so on the night. Had they been knock ons or dropped passes by someone else then I wouldnt have assigned him the errors, but they werent and we could have had the possession. |
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Quote ="tvoc"Perhaps you should lend it to Opta - www.superleague.co.uk/report/9915
As a stat man from back in the day I'd be interested to hear how much credibility you would personally afford to an organisation who found only the one error in McGuire's performance on Friday?'"
None ! I cant be d looking at those all I do know is that based on watching the game twice he clearly made several errors two of which were clear scoring chances had the ball found the man.
I think I assigned him 6 errors in total, twice he failed to retrieve a loose ball literally at his feet, one drop ball and three passes that went to ground. 2 in fact went into the stands whiich even Stevo could see.
I presume they have only listed the one dropped ball but its always the ball carriers responsibilty in my book so I have assigned him the 3 stray passes as well
and when the ball is literally at your feet but you dont drop on it then in my book thats a huge error also!! even Carney thought so on the night. Had they been knock ons or dropped passes by someone else then I wouldnt have assigned him the errors, but they werent and we could have had the possession. | |
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I can never understand why certain posters put such store in Opta's output. I blame the internet.
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| Quote ="tvoc"I blame the internet.'"
It has helped keep me sane over the past 6 years !!!!
I much prefer my own view of a game rather than letting someone else dictate it for me
and for me McGuire had a very quiet game mostly based in the middle of the park doing mostly simple things...someone has to, but I know what I saw in terms of errors.
Thankfully the young guns starred on the night, with Hardacker and Briscoe being outstanding followed by Watkins.
I do like the look of the new Hooker so far and I think Burrow has a role at the begining and the end which he clearly has adapted to.
Can McGuirre improve ??? well he might given some time. I can be patient. |
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I think that McGuire has earned the right to be given a decent whack of games to prove himself. However, if by the mid-point of the season he is not performing then he should be moved aside as there are better long term options waiting in the wings to take that place
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Someone mentioned that Aiton got bumped off a fair bit on Friday. Having watched the replay I think this is true, but he seems to make good contact, and stop the man, for others to finish him off.
I think we will have to see how this develops over time and hopefully it can be improved. Its still better than being run around (McShane) or run over (Burrow)
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| Quote ="The Eagle"Someone mentioned that Aiton got bumped off a fair bit on Friday. Having watched the replay I think this is true, but he seems to make good contact, and stop the man, for others to finish him off.
I think we will have to see how this develops over time and hopefully it can be improved. Its still better than being run around (McShane) or run over (Burrow)'"
Aiton made a high number of positive, hard working, tackles which overlooks a couple of shady ones IMO.
Aiton must have offered a Diskin/Buderus style number to the tackle sheet. Which is needed.
Didn't notice Burrow required to do much tackling against Wire which is good as we want to see him noticed with ball in hand feeding off tired legs after his own breather. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"I can never understand why certain posters put such store in Opta's output. I blame the internet.'"
There was a time when you posted Optas weekly and regularly quoted them. You seem to have turned against Opta as others now access their information without you. Now why would that be?
Stats can provide information to make a point for and also against most arguments. However even if not totally accurate they do provide useful information eg whether JP made 54 or 60 tackles doesn't alter the fact it was a major effort and superb performance.
That said, without knowing the minutes on the field stat for each player (which the clubs have) we cannot fairly make totally accurate judgements when comparing players performances. |
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| Quote ="thebloodbath"Aiton made a high number of positive, hard working, tackles which overlooks a couple of shady ones IMO.
Aiton must have offered a Diskin/Buderus style number to the tackle sheet. Which is needed.
Didn't notice Burrow required to do much tackling against Wire which is good as we want to see him noticed with ball in hand feeding off tired legs after his own breather.'"
On a positive note and on balance I think the team as a whole looked strong against a difficult opposition who, whilst limited on attack, stuck to the task and made sure we couldnt drop our guard.
The pack as a whole did their job and we where 18-6 up with less than 10 minutes to go. Had the drop goal gone over then they might have conceeded the game at that point. But it didnt and they rallied to look to snatch a draw and scored a crawl over try with 4 left on the clock
A lesser side might have caved it in at that point but our line defence worked very hard with some amazing last ditch tackles on the line. I enjoyed that aspect as much as the 3 tries..Lets keep it up this weekend. looking forward to watching it. |
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Re-Aiton getting "bumped off" i did notice having watched the game in full last night that on a couple of occasionsalthough he made contact and got bumped as such he still managed to regain a grip either on the legs or ankles.
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Don't think Aiton leaves the leg press/curl machine.
Huge legs.
Just saying......
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Just to add whatever criticisms are levelled at Wire's lack of creativity/HB's our 1 line defence was very very good.
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| Quote ="thebloodbath"Aiton made a high number of positive, hard working, tackles which overlooks a couple of shady ones IMO.
Aiton must have offered a Diskin/Buderus style number to the tackle sheet. Which is needed.
Didn't notice Burrow required to do much tackling against Wire which is good as we want to see him noticed with ball in hand feeding off tired legs after his own breather.'"
He did a lot of positive stuff. He had great work rate and hits hard for a pretty small guy.
His role should be defend the middle and let burrow be fresh for running at their forwards |
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| Quote ="DHM"Been out of the country so only just watched the game. After reading bits of this thread I was expecting Leeds to have been total gash and Warrington slightly worse. I was also expecting to see Kylie and McGuire to be utterly dreadful - setting a new low. Anyway, I think I must have recorded the wrong game, if anyone has a version that resembles the one I was expecting can you make me a copy?
The game I recorded (which obviously was the wrong one), was a good early season encounter between a Warrington side stung into action defensively after their poor showing last week and confident and organised looking Leeds team. I guess not everything came off for both teams but the high wind, cold and then wet didn't seem to hinder some good movement met by solid defence from both sides. The ref even had a good one.
I really enjoyed it. Kylie looked perfectly fine and McGuire looked dangerous - I actually thought he looked sharp and did a lot of good defending.'"
I haven't watched the recording yet but at the game I thought mcGuire looked a real threat. I thought he was one of our better players. |
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I thought McGuire and Sinfield were decent going forward, McGuire would have had a try assist in the first half if Briscoe was stood a little deeper like he should have been. Both him and Sinfield moved the ball well, the timing was just a little off at times, which is to be expected I suppose in the 2nd game of the season. McGuire failed to deal with a couple kicks though, and he will need to improve in this area or it could become an obvious weakness that other teams will exploit as the season goes on.
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| Quote ="G1"I haven't watched the recording yet but at the game I thought mcGuire looked a real threat. I thought he was one of our better players.'"
I thought he made a couple of half breaks |
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| Quote ="The Eagle"I thought he made a couple of half breaks'"
There is no such thing statistically
He seemed very reluctant to bend his back to retrieve the loose ball on 3 occassions.
On one occassion it was in the in goal area and we had to drop out. IIRC on that set Warrington scored with the wide kick to Ryan Halls wing.
Yes in the middle of the park his distribution of the ball was fine, but hardly a threat. On the two occassions he attempted a wide miss out pass close to the line they were both very poor attempts regardless of the wingers position.
Yes we are only 2 games in and he may well be rusty but at this level and with his experience thats a poor excuse in my book.
Hardacker Briscoe and Watkins dont look underdone thankfully. |
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Slightly off thread but the fact Moon has been fed the ball on the 5th for him to kick on about 5 separate occasions (in the last 2 games) is more than a coincidence.
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i would praise the brilliant kick into the in goal rather than blame mcguire
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| Quote ="tad rhino"i would praise the brilliant kick into the in goal rather than blame mcguire'"
If he had at least bent his back and made some effort to recover the ball on each of the three occasions then fair enough but he didn't or couldnt |
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With regards to the grubber kicks i'm with DA on this Mags just impeded ZH twice and didn't react a 3rd time by securing the bal on the deck.
I do also think ZH maybe could have given Mags a shout (if he didn't) but all 3 could have been difused by DM imo.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"There was a time when you posted Optas weekly and regularly quoted them.'"
At that time those individual game stats were not available to view online as they are now. As I collected the data anyway I posted some of the IMO key stats simply because I had them so why not and if a post match discussion ensued then so be it.
Quote ="Juan Cornetto" You seem to have turned against Opta as others now access their information without you. '"
I've always questioned their accuracy from day one and still do today. Just this week there has been the issue of Peacock's tackle count (re Sky/BBC/OPta) and McGuire's error count as raised by another poster on this forum.
Quote ="Juan Cornetto" Now why would that be? '"
If you have a theory why not share it?
If the premise of the question is based on me turning against Opta's then I would suggest it's a false one. |
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| Quote ="Fat Boy"Slightly off thread but the fact Moon has been fed the ball on the 5th for him to kick on about 5 separate occasions (in the last 2 games) is more than a coincidence.'"
I've mentioned that too.
It's a good tactic. Play the power play shift left, if nothing on kick on. Confuses opposition in their defensive set-up.
His kicks have been well placed rather than boots in hope. |
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Perhaps I should lend you my copy.
all I do know is that based on watching the game twice he clearly made several errors two of which were clear scoring chances had the ball found the man.
