Lockyer is in a different class to Sinfield's, for that matter he was in a different class from most players.

You've hit the nail on the head, we don't have any good halves. If we had Thurston then we would have an outside chance of winning the World Cup, sadly Sinfield is neither creative enough nor does he have the pace to cause the Roos or Kiwis problems. I am not singling him out for criticism he has been a great SL player but he doesn't have what it takes to be successful at this level so late in his career.

'If only we had Thurston'... that's such an easy thing to say and stands for most of the tests i have watched since the days we could match them with the likes of Schofield and Gregory circa 1990.

In the time since they have had Langer,Stuart,Daley,Fittler,Kimmorley,Johns,Lockyer and Thurston all of whom have outclassed our halves on the big stage 95% of the time and would have made a huge difference should we have had them playing for us.Facts are we just dont produce the halves at the level the Aussies can.

Sinfield is certainly not at the level of those mentioned above as a half back, but is the best we have as far as the balance of the side is concerned.

not disputing it. just pointing out that pace isn't everything

I don't recall Wally Lewis sprinting around the pitch much either. He seemed to do OK though.

Don't be silly you cant be a great international standard player without blistering pace.

Yeah Wally had pace to burn would Offiah esq.
Ask Wally what he thinks of Kevin Sinfield rates him very highly.

Of course it's all about pace, had we played Kevin Penny and Leroy Rivett at 6 and 7 in the past we would've smashed the Aussies without doubt!

I know

Not international standard. Never has been and never will be. Had lots of chances and never showed up.

All the negative stuff about Sinfield ignores the fact that potential replacements are simply not as good, and they show a profound ignorance of how important Sinfield is in simply giving the side shape.

All this 'he's not as good as Thurston/Lockyer/whoever' is barmy. Sean Long was never anywhere near as good as them on any kind of regular basis either. Schofield is the only 6 in the last 30 years who could be relied on to be comparable to his opposite. As for 7, nobody - including Gregory IMO - stood up regularly.

In terms of potential replacements within SL, well Brough is the only one (the other choices are laughable), and he took his bat home because he wanted to be assured he'd be first choice. As far as I'm concerned he can rightly sod off and play for Scotland.

Ignoring (or semingly being completely unable to comprehend) the role Sinfield plays in holding the shape of the side together is perhaps forgivable for those who've only watched the game for a few years (i.e. twelve-year olds) but frankly shows a complete lack of understanding of what is happening on the field.

If anyone is in any doubt, find yourselves videos of most of Sean Long's games at 7 against Australia, or almost any games v Aus going back to Paul
Sculthorpe at 6. Sculthorpe wasn't really a 6 either, but he - like Sinfield - enabled the rest of the team to hold some semblance of shape.

Bar one game Long was bloody awful. Full headless chicken. Now compare England's attack in their game against Australia, where it was errors amongst the forwards that caused us most grief. The backs looked far slicker as a unit than we've had for years.

I've said before, ideally we'd have a Chase/Widdopp/other able to hold it together like Sinfield, but Chase isn't that kind of player, and barring Origin time Widdopp has never had the chance - he's a (very good) bit part player at the moment. Hopefully at St George he'll become the main playmaker, and we'll be able to pick a younger, quicker version of Sinfield.

However, perhaps instead of bagging Sinfield for lack of pace, others should be bagged - Brough for being a petulant twit, and all the otyher SL halfbacks for simply not being very good?

guess its just luck he's highly rated in the cvr stats & has consistently been rated as englands best performer by the aussie press in the big games over the last few years? maybe we should go back to headless chickens & 80 minute hiders in the halves, that's what will beat the aussies....

He plays stand off for Leeds doesn't he? If that's the case why do people keep going on about him being a loose forward?

To win internationals it's half in the head and Sinfield's decision making is generally very good. Chase for all his other virtues hasn't developed that side to his game. Haven't seen enough of Widdop to comment.

That's because for most of his career he's played Loose Forward. It's only since Brian McDermott has coached us that Sinfield has been regularly playing Stand-Off / Scrum Half.

Very this!

When will folk realise the only reason Sinfield is at 6 is because of the complete lack of any other option. He's had to learn the role, and whilst not the best attacking stand off, he can control a game and is certainly not a target in defence (like some other supposed great English 6's) When the pack give him a performance that any half back requires I think peoples attitude may change. He ain't gonna go showboating a hat-trick of tries, but will boss a game from minute 1.

I am expecting Robby to be the secret weapon when the change is needed.

Kevin has a column in today's daily telegraph you can read it online, no earth shattering revelations but description of life in the traing camp.
One point he makes is he believes today's match should not have clashed with the England union game.

A real captains knock today.

Another 8 out of 10 from the skipper.

as always though it will go under the radar.and he will still be the scape goat should we fail in the semi's or final.

He's so neat and tidy, so professional, calm and composed.

Would give him 9/10...... docked a point for playing out of position.

8.5 out of 10 on NRL.com.

Described as a "courageous, scheming performance". Only Sam Burgess rated higher.

Still, he's rubbish.

He is the consummate professional. Always gives 100%. Ok he has no pace but so what. Was at the game yesterday and thought the problems at half back were down to Chase. I thought the game changer was Sinfields second half kick off. Pure Genius.

And yes I am a HKR fan.

....and tough as nails. His concussion was a bad one yesterday when you saw the "whiplash" but, like the 2012 Grand Final, he dusted himself off and carried on.