Just on the Rugby Union issue. I am not a fan of what GH did with it, and would rather have stayed away. But wasn't he sold a bit of a poop bag. The rumblings were that RU was going to some form of franchise/geographical split, and that a a top flight Yorkshire club was deemed necessary as part of those plans.

With that in the pipeline, he set up the club ready for it to gain a permanent fixture at the top table. Only for those plans to be abandoned, and the rest is history.

Gareth I take your point but I think you are wrong with regards to Caddick not putting any money in. Initially he did guarantee the 7m overdraft but where did the 350k that it cost to buy Harris come from? Who owned the RU club we accquired?

I totally agree re the good work GH has done on the Rhinos - without Caddick's money the financial turn around would not have been possible. The club could not afford to stay overnight for a fixture in London let alone put a team together like the one the Murray managed. When people talk about GH being some kind of business guru they need to put things into context Leeds is a tiny business - and compared to the likes of Ken Davy, Lenagan and McManus his business experience is very limited.

I thought that too. IIRC a decent amount of Premiership teams were in favour of it, can't quite remember why it faltered.



But as mentioned previously, to take a team like Leeds to a good position in the Premiership and win the Powergen Cup is a worthy achievement. Especially as their academy was starting to produce results. IIRC the salary cap in Union got raised and the French clubs went crazy with their money, and Caddick couldn't/wouldn't fund it anymore, hence selling it off.

I think Sal is being very disingenuous here, Hetherington's management of the club, with very limited financial input from Caddick (not a criticism of Caddick btw) has been superb.

I'm still interested in how he managed to convince the RFL Board, Council and Richard Lewis to give Nigel Wood a job though.

That is what having a power base does - Wood went from FD a Halifax where they were bankrupt when he left into the FD role at the RFL how does that happen? because GH needed to have a voice at the top table, Wood would never have got that job on merit - a bit like Rimmer also - he needed influence to get it - you scratch my back etc.

No one is criticising GH achievements at Leeds RL but the union is just an example that not everything he touches turns to gold. You would have to be pretty bad not to make a success of Leeds RL it was a sleeping giant, do you think if GH and Caddick had gone into Halifax instead the results would have been the same or for that matter why not stay at Sheffield?

Sal-A couple of things firstly just because Wood got the RFL job where does the evidence come from that it was because of GH??
Secondly onto the Carnegie issue their Acadamy has produced some top players who the likes of Leicester and Northampton have picked off plus when they got promoted the new team doesn't get the same ££ from the Premiership as the other sides do so are already behind money wise which is hardly the said Clubs CEO's fault.

When do you think Wood got the FD job at the RFL Sal?

I used to have a girl working for me who was his assistant at the RFL, and that was 2002. Did GH really have any influence with the RFL then?

As Rhinoms and Gotcha point out, that was a long time ago and where's the evidence for this?
Not to mention you've drastically changed your tune. You've gone from saying he got the top job to only his financial director role.
Which is it?
Or have you been making stuff up and are now trying to wriggle out of it now you realise you've cocked up?


I think you're being very disingenuous, to both what he and Caddick achieved with Carnegie and the "easy" nature of turning Leeds into a top club (not just top team). The club was a complete mess when he and Caddick took over. They professionalised the club and brought in quality leadership at the club. To get the club from where it was in 1996 (8,500 average crowd, £7m in debt, £2.8m turnover) to where it is today (15,000 average crowd, £2.5m in credit, £10/11m turnover with a healthy profit) is pretty good going and requires very good management (especially of a sporting club) to achieve that in such a short timescale.

Absolutely he did - Other than Maurice Lindsey he would have been the best connected man in RL as he still is today - no wonder the likes Pearson are very wary of him.

On Wood GH had an influence on him getting the FD role to begin with and it is inconceivable that Wood would have morphed into the top job unchallenged without GH's backing. GH is the most powerful voice in the game in the northern hemisphere. What is odd is with the issues around the game i.e. lower participation, reduced funds from Sport England and lack of sponsorship that GH has no comment to make? An example of his influence is how he got Smith out of Leeds and into the England job - again another point you have omitted to challenge!!

On Leeds RL I have repeated said what a good job GH has done - some on here obviously struggle with reading simple English. My point is this it would not have been possible at many other clubs - I mentioned Halifax and Sheffield - I note as usual you have failed to respond on that point, seems this is not the only thread on which your fingers have been very selective!! It also helps if you have a strong financial backing - Leeds were able to reduce the overdraft in a controlled manner whilst still being able to borrow to invest in other projects e.g. the hotel. Also they were be able to invest in the team early doors by buying the likes of Harris something lesser funded clubs would not have been able to do.

So basically a conspiracy theory with no actual proof?

Better put the tinfoil hat back on, they might be listening

A bit like when Briscoe was said to be coming to Leeds, no proof at that time - GH denied it - where is Briscoe playing for the next five seasons.

This board is full of this stuff what is strange is how much of it actually ends up being true!!

So your evidence for GH running the RFL is we signed briscoe and GH denied it. Hardly the same. There could be many reasons for dening signing briscoe. There had to be some conversations with players already in the team, maybe even hull didn't want it announcing till the season was over. Either way there is a big difference between not confirming we have signed a player and managing to get woods into the RFL as the FD in 2002 and then to get his puppet the top job.

As I said before a conspiracy theory with no evidence at all

Aren't they all?

So is it the FD role then? So you were lying when you said this then?


And this?


And this?

Quite obviously not referring to the FD role but to the top job. So let's try again. What influence did GH have in getting Wood the job? How did he convince the RFL Board, the RFL Council and Richard Lewis to give Wood firstly the FD role and then the COO role followed by CEO?
Any other attempts at swerving and misdirection are not necessary, just answer the question, or admit you were making it up, it's quite clear you were anyway.

I omitted to challenge the Tony Smith issue because I don't know enough about it, however I don't find it unreasonable for the RFL to hire a soon to be out of work Grand Final winning coach. If GH had influence in getting him that job, tell us how and in what way.



Has anyone suggested other clubs could have had such rapid a rise? However it was you who virtually disregarded Hetherington's role and put most of the credit on Caddick spending money on the club, which is just wrong. As are your lies about Nigel Wood on this thread. If there was significant investment from Caddick then, like the Nigel Wood issue, prove it. Show us examples. The only evidence you have is spending by the club but can't prove where it came from.
Come on, you made the assertions, it's up to you to back them up.

He has no evidence. He made it up.

Just a point of order to throw in. Nigel Wood wasn’t appointed as FD of the RFL from being FD of Halifax.

After he had left Halifax Richard Lewis asked him to lead a review in to the sport as an external consultant in 2001, in 2002 he was appointed by the RFL board as FD, in 2003 COO, in 2007 CEO.

Any director level appointment is done by the Nomination Committee. The nomination committee was at that time Internationally renowned Sports Lawyer and former Man Utd Director Maurice Watkins, Former Chief Exec of Morrisons PLC Bob Stott, and oddly Ian Edwards a former newsreader (though he left in 2008 and it is now Claire Morrow the head of Welcome to Yorkshire and non-exec at Leeds Teaching Hospitals ) not people I would personally think are in some kind of thrall to Gary Hetheringtons demands.

Shhh. Sal thinks GH got Wood the Chairman's role when Richard Lewis left.

Repeating yourself and using words like "inconceivable" do not, as far as I'm aware, prove anything. Just saying that GH is "the most powerful voice in the game in the northern hemisphere" doesn't actually make him so.

Do you have any actual proof that GH was wholly responsible for Wood's appointment?

I would also say GH should have a loud voice within the running of the game. Whatever the RFL do needs the buy in of the clubs, especially the few big clubs we have and certainly the fewer ‘super clubs’ we have. Leeds are the biggest club in the country, they should have a big voice. The same goes for Ian Lenegan at Wigan, McManus and Moran at Saints and Wire.

That’s my issue with whats happening here. Though I don’t agree with it the new structure had buy in from at least 3 of those 4 clubs and everyone else. This pause and delay which is causing damaging instability doesn’t seem to be about the new structure which 3 of the 4 have bought in to, but that Wigan have allied themselves with Wire (who are very much against the proposed structure and always have been) to get more money, more representation and a different commercial and marketing structure. Now I agree that SL should have more money, more representation and a different commercial and marketing structure, and I have sympathy with Ian Lenegans demands. What I don’t think is right is to use the re-structrure as leverage to get it.

Personally I think the 2x12 and 3x8 idea is a dumb one. I think it is an awful idea as do many in the game. I agree with Tony Smith that franchising has not been done right and not given the time to work but it isn’t necessarily the wrong path. I also think this instability is worse and rather than simply join together to throw a spanner in the works for different reasons, if the rebel 6 were to hold this gun to the games head, they should have had an alternative ready to go. The fact they are still, at this point saying “we don’t know what we want but we don’t want that“ isn’t good enough.

All this discussion seems to suggest that we need a "big hitter" as CEO.
Whilst GH has done a good job at club level, and would promote some sensible ideas, I would not put him forward for the position, given his history as Leeds CEO.
What is needed is someone with no ties, current or previous, to a Super League club, and probably with an open mind and a business / marketing expertise. He should be seen to be independent, respected for his business ability and hard headed enough to bring the clubs together to see the common sense bigger picture.
The current situation is that we have a lack of respect for the top man.
This is a recipe for back biting and argument and lack of firm vision and decision making.
Just as in business, if you don't respect your boss, then he will not succeed in the long term, and it may lead to the end of the organisation..

Did you lift that from Brian Barwick's CV?

Goodness gracious, at last a sensible, non-partisan post on this matter.

let's just leave the 6 clubs to fend for themself. see how long they last without funding, a large leeds away following and players wanting to leave them

the so called 6 clubs that may be 7 as saints were not represented at the meeting do not rely on leeds away support also if there was a split god forbid the sky tv deal would probably be scrapped .I really hope there is no split but for me if there was the 6 or 7 break away clubs would be in a stronger position than the rest

There is zero chance of an actual split happening with Leeds in one camp and Wigan in another. The other clubs just can't survive without both of the two biggest names. Some form of compromise will have to be reached - but getting there could be a horribly ugly process.