It's fair to say that whilst the Kiwis don't automatically rule themselves out of selection by joining a SL team, they do make it much harder for themselves to be selected due to the (unofficial) policyof the coach.

I also think that a major reason why SL players don't seem to get picked for the Kiwis is that generally the ones that come over aren't good enough anymore, that's the reason they come. SL is a less physically demanding competition to play in, and is less likely to expose the weaknesses of the players who come over.

Gary is more likely to want to sign these two:

Manase =#FF0000Manuokafoa, Pele =#FF0000Peletelese

He'd get a better return on shirt sales - you do pay by the letter don't you

But you've said "apart from Thomas Leuluai". Which makes your whole point totally invalid. The fact is Leuluai, Eastwood, Webb have all represented NZ WHILST playing in Super League.

You know exactly what I mean Keith but I'll explain it for you one more time...

Had Eastwood been Australian, and in the same circumstances (i.e. 22/23 Years Old, International Fringe player with a chance of becoming a regular in the National Team) he simply would've not even considered a move to the UK. You know that.

Isaac Luke or Nathan Fien would still be considered for their national team if they were to sign for a Super League club. Cooper Cronk or Cam Smith would not.

Stop being an idiot now. I'm bored.

Eastwood never represented the Kiwis whilst at Leeds. He represented the Kiwis before he'd played for Leeds and he represented the Kiwis after he'd left Leeds. Webb made 16 incumbent full back appearances for the Kiwis between 2004 and 2006. Whilst at Leeds, he made 1 appearance for the Kiwis in 2008 and has not been seen since in a Kiwi shirt.

You cannot justify a statement like [i"They (Kiwis) still get to represent whilst playing over here" [/i on the basis of such flimsy evidence, particularly when the overwhelming evidence points to far more Kiwi players sacrificing their international careers and being discarded once they join a Super League club, which is particularly the case with the selection policy of the current Kiwi coach. It'll be interesting to see if Jeff Lima bucks this selection policy trend by getting selected for the 2011 Four Nations Kiwi squad, now he's a Wigan player in Super League.

Oh, and there's no need for the dummy-spit responses just because you've been challenged on an opinion you are erroneously dressing up as a statement of fact.

Did Lyon play for Aus in 2006

He did but he'd already left St Helens to join Manly. Had a shocker IIRC against GB in Sydney and was dropped. Replaced by Justin Hodges for the rest of the Tri Nations tournament. I doubt he'd have been selected had he still been contracted to Super League for 2007.

I'd be inclined to agree with Batley's point in all this.

Currently there is only one Kiwi player in SL worthy of selection in the current New Zealand Test team and he isn't even on the overseas quota list apparently.

I think it's a quality issue rather than a policy to exclude issue.

I'd say it's a bit of both - the coach will want the maximum time available with the squad for something like the Anzac Test. If he's having to wait for one or two players to fly over, then get past the jetlag/time difference it's going to seriously eat into his preparation time.

Easier to just pick players who are already southern hemisphere based.

Additionally, I wonder whether there's a little bit of "out of sight, out of mind" about it? If you see players offering what you're looking for right under your nose, why look on the other side of the world?

It is hard for this individual to resist his deep rooted traits regardless of his (percieved) intelligence.

However, for what it's worth I think tvoc has summed it up correctly.

I agree with tvoc...

In fact, I did say myself a whole page ago:


It wasn't meant to turn into an argument, just a simple observation that an SL club is more likely to sign a top class, in his prime Kiwi, than it is a top class in his prime Aussie. That was it. That's the whole point.

My rationale for this argument was that the Australian in question would have to forfeit SOO and International tournaments, where as the New Zealander would be less likely to have to.

Apologies for any confusion caused RR. I agree with your observations above and in my view your rationale is sound.

In the post where I originally quoted you I was of course refering to our resident WUM Mr Swiftcorn and his all things Austrailian 'Agenda'.

Did anybody explain this policy too poor Weller Hauraki before he came to Super League?

What a waste of a potential glittering international career.

I didn't know he had an alternative career with a potential international aspect? I say this because you can't surely mean in rugby league...

but you already knew this.

Allan Langer played SOO for QLD when he was at Warrington.

The NZ Maori selection policy is more lenient given the evidence of their selection of two Super League based players in the 18-18 draw against England last year... Weller Hauraki being one of them.

The quality issue generally kicks in once a Kiwi player joins a Super League club. Their level of performance is no longer as consistently good because it doesn't need to be in a less intense and less competitive environment. That's why it makes more sense to base selection policy on current NRL-based Kiwi players.

Kiwi players with representative ambitions are doing themselves no favours signing for a Super League club and are effectively ruling themselves out of selection contention... Thomas Leuluai being the exception, provided it's not an Anzac Test.

Indeed. Called back during his second season at Warrington amid a veil of secrecy to cover injury in the third and deciding game of the 2001 series having last played origin in 1998 also I believe the last year he gained rep honours.

As the origin selection rules state, (as you are no doubt aware) to be considered for origin, a player has to be elegible to represent Austrailia at international level. So while Alfie was technically available for selection by Austraillia, it was never going to happen.

So although he played 1 game of origin in 2001 whilst in super league this is obviously an exception rather than the norm (I believe this was reported by some in the Oz press at the time as a selection smacking of desperation by Qld coach Bennet although it did work out).

I cant think of an example where this has happenned since (although if there is (am sure you will let me know), so it would seem that the norm is, any Austrailian player playing in Super league will forfeit any chance of playing SOO or gaining rep honours.

If Buderus is to return to Oz then we should have some good headroom in the salary cap.

What with contract extentions (and I would expect savings) for the likes of Webb, Leuluai, Kirke etc and with Senior & Ali gone I would hope we would have sufficient in the war chest to make an important signing or two.

Would it be too much to expect GH to be negotiating with Sonny Bill Williams? With him and Chase you would start to regain some lost ground and bring the best out of our young threequarters.

I agree we have space under the salary cap for 1/2 quality signings and hopefully GH has already done the business.
You seem to be assuming that Kosi's source was right and the Rhinos have signed Chase. I'm not sure how reliable this information is. What about Buderus is he staying or returning to Newcastle?
SBW has stated he wants to go back to the NRL after his All Black contract is finished.

Much as I'd like to see SBW in a Rhinos shirt anybody who thinks that we can match his salary expectations is living in cloud cuckoo land.

But GH is supposed to be such a good negotiator! Tweet Tweet!

Are you confident that we will sign Chase? Kosi has not come back with any other information like fee, player exchange eyc. Great if true but....!

the men in White coats will be coming for you if you're not careful (quoting yourself and asking yourself a question)

Thanks for bringing the wrong quote to my attention! The one above from Juan Cornetto was the one I was referring to. It reads as though the Chase signing "is in the bag" but I'm waiting for more information. It's great if Chase does join the Rhinos. I agree that there is plenty of room under the cap for 1/2 quality signings and hopefully Chase is one of them! Can't GH keep us informed of any signings he's made!