Ward's not a half-back Gareth. He never was a half-back.

He played 6 in the Under 19s because he was probably the best player in the age group and they wanted him to get as much ball in his hands as possible. It's the way eager parents run an Under 10s side, and reflects badly on a professional setup IMO.

Ward had good ball skills when he was a junior IIRC he played half back at a game against Bradford at Odsal. Unfortunately that appears to have been coached out of him?

Using S.Ward as a battering ram doesn't exactly aid his development either imo.
For me he should be used as a ball playing 13 but its not how we play nowadays we tend to use the extra prop or battring ram esque Delaney.

He was named on the teamsheet at 7, in a game that Leeds went into without either McGuire or Burrow IIRC.

So it was more a case of make do and mend than anything else.

World of difference between having those skills in the much slower pace of Under 16 and Under 19 rugby, and being able to replicate them at first team level when your thinking time is much reduced. As Sutcliffe is starting to find out.

Agreed but you shouldn't have the natural skills you have coached out of you either?

A different view......

Perhaps these players had natural skills to excel at certain age levels.

Perhaps these players were good enough to shine against same aged players, 75/80% of whom won't reach SL standard.

But perhaps those natural skills were never good enough when faced with better older opposition.

Perhaps some people over-praised players in age groups, and when they look shaky at open age the easier thing is to say the "club failed" these guys rather than say we might've got ahead of ourselves and the lad isn't as good as we rambled on about?

Are the players in the positions they'll eventually suit? Perhaps not, but didn't Sinfield start out as a 2nd rower???

Perhaps instead of getting despondent and moaning about the clubs academy players because certain posters see them look good at a certain level and it not translate to first team......just perhaps they exercise some caution and realise looking good at 16/17 is a complete different ballpark to becoming a week in week out established SL player.

Maybe it's not the club doing wrong that this super talent at 16 isn't a super talent at 21......maybe they were never the super talent you thought all again.....but we know they'd never want to admit that.

I won't hold my breathe though.

Sinfield was a half back at academy level so nothing has really changed for him

It is very unlikely that the natural skills a player possess cannot be improved with appropriate coaching surely the coaches should be improving the weaknesses as well as developing the qualities to make a more complete player

Just guessing here Printer, and this is no dig so please don't take it that way, but you haven't played the game have you?

Yes I have thanks, quite a bit. Mixture of centre/2nd row if you must know.

Clear from your posts that due to being involved with juniors you have rose tinted glasses on for them to get games to the point it reaches impatience.

He's certainly not a second rower. He played a lot of his junior rugby as a half or a ball playing 13. He excelled at that level at it. It certainly doesn't appear that they see that as his role at first team level.

If they do see him as a 2nd rower then I am afraid that the hype doesn't appear to have been warranted, entering into his 3rd full season in the 1st team he looks like a distinctly average 2nd rower. Can anyone tell me that last time he made a tackle burst or offload against SL opposition?

It appears to me that they have taken an excellent ball handler and made him into the prototype McDermott head down up 2nd rower.

Whilst there is no doubting your view based on this season, last season up to his injury he was our best back rower, then injury struck. He has hardly played three seasons has he. He played back end of season in 2012, and ended up playing in a CC final and a GF, then last year two thirds of season he was injured.

He had all the ingredients to be just like O'Loughlin. But the club coaching staff took a different direction with him. Whether they are shown to be right only time will tell.

If Ward was our best back row forward up untill injury then thats news to me (not many to choose from ) Ablett by miles when he played in 2nd row . The facts are that Ward shows nothing special in any aspect of his play and is just not big enough for me .

Ward has suffered with injuries, is only 20, and for me has great potential. Re abbo who I'm a big fan of and a player who has got better and better especially over the last few seasons, but is also someone who took time to reach his level, and was largely written off as just not being good enough. Far far to early to be writing ward off

A little hard on a young player who was out injured for so long.

In fact he is our 3rd best forward for tackle busts (behind JP & Ablett) He is also our 3rd best forward for offloads (behind JP & Ablett again) and he has made as many clean breaks as Sinfield, JP and Kylie and more than Clarkson & Delaney with Messrs Bailey, Kirke, Aiton and Singleton making zero clean breaks. Only Delaney (552) JP (549) and Ablett (48icon_cool.gif have made more tackles in the forwards and he has made 2 try assists behind Ablett (4) Achurch, Aiton and Delaney (3 each) in the forwards.

He certainly lacks a go forward game but there are several others who you could have picked on being more distinctly average than he.

He's a skillful player, in these positions of the field, that is being asked to do a job which doesn't work for him or the team. Finding Stevie Ward at third receiver out wide, with no room, he gets buried. He cant 'Delaney' his way out of the situation. Which shows his average gain to be very poor but he's not being helped with the balls he receives. But the obvious answer to this is for him to ramp it up now and through next pre-season to get a more competitive frame on him. (which may help his tackle stats, as misses far too many, with being bumped off too easy)

He is "being asked to do" the same role as when he first came into the side, a role he performed very well until he got injured. A third receiver out wide should not regularly be having no room. If this is happening then 1st and second receivers are the ones you should be looking at.

Like I said Ward is our 4th leading forward tackler (5th overall) and he is 5th leading marker tackler which shows he is often first in to the tackle. His missed tackle percentage is 8.8% Ablett is 8.4% and Singleton 9.6%. Often enthusiastic players are first up and can have a higher number of missed tackles. As 3rd best tackler buster (in forwards) he has shown he can also do the bumping off so perhaps before ramping it up I would prefer to see him work on his speed off the mark.

Still think it would be worth playing him in the halves against HKR with Sutcliffe to LF.

I was basing my opinion upon watching him play, rather than his stats.

Watching him play, he looks like a distinctly average 2nd rower at the moment, IMO.

quite correct too many people on here concenyrate on stats instead of watching the game

People use stats selectively to back up their agenda. Those agendas are usually arrived at from watching the games.

While I can agree that Ward has not yet produced his previous form and has not made the same impact, he has been quietly doing a job which you appear to have missed. Perhaps your position in the stands is too elevated to spot tackle busts and offloads?

You specifically asked, in a critical manner, when he last made a tackle bust and an offload. Well in his two previous games he made both a TB and an OL.

My opinion is also based on watching the play which in this case is backed up by the stats - unlike your opinion which as I said was a little too critical particularly when compared with the performances (or lack of) by some of his teammates.

What hasn't helped Ward is players in his position plain and simply looking better than him. Achurch has upped his game this season and Walters has held his spot on merit so far. So Ward has slipped down the pecking order.

With Delaney and Ablett shoe-ins, leaves Ward and Clarkson scrapping for a potential spot.

I think i saw an interview with Ward and he said something along the lines of only standing out in one game (Leigh in cup) so he knows he has to do better.

Competition is great. With Ablett, JJB and Achurch soon to return and with our reserve props looking poor I think now is the time to move Delaney up to prop. He is best down the middle and plays more like a prop and perhaps would now benefit from shorter spells.

I cannot see what Clarkson offers other than cover for injuries. I agree that Achurch has started to fulfill his promise and that Walters has been tremendous. However I would like to see us not overplaying Walters so that we keep him fresh for the run in to the season where he has the ability to make a big impact off the bench.

Competition is excellent. it'll be nice to get key players back and running with Mac's ideal 17 now, the run in now isn't far away.

I've taken JJB out of the mix for now, as it seems to be one injury after another.

Has Ward changed his style due to his shoulder injuries? He seems like a natural old-style loose forward to me, from what I recall of watching U19s highlights where he was a 6. Playing as a workhorse second row wouldn't seem to be his game at all, even if he can do it quite well.