But he was found not guilty in the end (whether the verdict was correct is another issue)... Are there other criminal infringements that would stop him getting a visa? If not I would sign him in a shot - just the sort of player Leeds need IMO.

As for Potter and Bird - did they actually overlap at the same club? I was under the impression that Potter was at Saints and Bird played under Walters for a season, but I may be wrong.

What GH said at the time... www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ja ... bird-leeds

What GH said at the time... www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ja ... bird-leeds

Hetherington says a few things at times that don't stack up.

I doubt Bird will sign for Leeds for 2012 but he'd be a quality addition if he did.

This is becoming increasingly less so. Apart from Thomas Leuluai, in recent years (and certainly since Kearney has been the coach) the Kiwis exclusively select from their NRL-based contingent. There's pretty good reasons for that.

I think I must have missed something? Greg bird one of the corner stones of the NSW origin pack and Aussie test shoe in after getting his career and life back on track he's leaving the Gold Coast and NRL for SL?

Seriously did I miss something?

Perhaps you missed the Frosties NRL out of contract list.

Other than that I agree with your comments re-Bird and think the chances of seeing him in SL in 2012 lay somewhere between slim and nil.

You can't say "apart from" and "exclusively" in the same sentence mate. (Yes yes. I've spotted the irony of using both words in that sentence).

The reason that only Leuluai is getting picked is because only Leuluai is good enough.

My point was that you're MORE LIKELY to attract a Kiwi in his prime than an Aussie in his prime, because the Kiwi wouldn't have to sacrifice representing his country, and the Aussie would. That's a perfectly valid point.

Indeed.

The point i was trying to make when mentioning GH's comments, is that even in the unlikeliest of scenarios that Bird was heading over here, surely we would be nowhere near the top of the list for his services anyway.

Never say never.

Quote ="Remarkable_Rhinos"You can't say "apart from" and "exclusively" in the same sentence mate. (Yes yes. I've spotted the irony of using both words in that sentence). The reason that only Leuluai is getting picked is because only Leuluai is good enough. My point was that you're MORE LIKELY to attract a Kiwi in his prime than an Aussie in his prime, because the Kiwi wouldn't have to sacrifice representing his country, and the Aussie would. That's a perfectly valid point.'" Kiwis do sacrifice representing their country by playing in Super League and that includes Thomas Leuluai on occasion. That appears to be the point you are missing and therefore your point about Kiwis in Super League not having to sacrifice representing their country is invalid. www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... aland.html

Quote ="Remarkable_Rhinos"You can't say "apart from" and "exclusively" in the same sentence mate. (Yes yes. I've spotted the irony of using both words in that sentence). The reason that only Leuluai is getting picked is because only Leuluai is good enough. My point was that you're MORE LIKELY to attract a Kiwi in his prime than an Aussie in his prime, because the Kiwi wouldn't have to sacrifice representing his country, and the Aussie would. That's a perfectly valid point.'" Kiwis do sacrifice representing their country by playing in Super League and that includes Thomas Leuluai on occasion. That appears to be the point you are missing and therefore your point about Kiwis in Super League not having to sacrifice representing their country is invalid. www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... aland.html

Quote ="Keith Swiftcorn"Kiwis do sacrifice representing their country by playing in Super League and that includes Thomas Leuluai on occasion. That appears to be the point you are missing and therefore your point about Kiwis in Super League not having to sacrifice representing their country is invalid. www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... aland.html'" Keith, you really are difficult sometimes. For no apparent reason either. For such an intelligent bloke surely you can understand such a simple point I was making?! If a NZer is good enough, whilst he may miss the odd test match, he wouldn't, for example, give up the opportunity to achieve a World Cup Winner's medal simply because he'd selected to play in the Super League. Which an Australian would pretty much have to do. Thus, meaning SL is much more likely to attract a quality, at his best Kiwi, than it is a quality, at his best Aussie. You know that to be true. Stop being difficult for the sake of it.

Quote ="Keith Swiftcorn"Kiwis do sacrifice representing their country by playing in Super League and that includes Thomas Leuluai on occasion. That appears to be the point you are missing and therefore your point about Kiwis in Super League not having to sacrifice representing their country is invalid. www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... aland.html'" Keith, you really are difficult sometimes. For no apparent reason either. For such an intelligent bloke surely you can understand such a simple point I was making?! If a NZer is good enough, whilst he may miss the odd test match, he wouldn't, for example, give up the opportunity to achieve a World Cup Winner's medal simply because he'd selected to play in the Super League. Which an Australian would pretty much have to do. Thus, meaning SL is much more likely to attract a quality, at his best Kiwi, than it is a quality, at his best Aussie. You know that to be true. Stop being difficult for the sake of it.

Greg Bird is OOC but why have no other NRL clubs signed him for 2012 and he's not agreed anything with the Titans? He's still only 26 so maybe he would fancy 2/3 years with the Rhinos and then go back to NRL

Apart from Thomas Leuluai, how many other Super League based players were selected for the Kiwi World Cup squad in 2008? How many were selected for the Four Nations in 2009 and 2010?

The selection policy of the current Kiwi coach is to select players from the NRL. Several Kiwi incumbents weren't selected again since they joined Super League clubs... Faiumu, Faalogo, Soliola, L. Anderson, Whatuira, Webster, Sa... etc. Several of those effectively ruled themselves out of being selected for the last World Cup by joining Super League clubs.

It's fair to say that whilst the Kiwis don't automatically rule themselves out of selection by joining a SL team, they do make it much harder for themselves to be selected due to the (unofficial) policyof the coach.

I also think that a major reason why SL players don't seem to get picked for the Kiwis is that generally the ones that come over aren't good enough anymore, that's the reason they come. SL is a less physically demanding competition to play in, and is less likely to expose the weaknesses of the players who come over.

Gary is more likely to want to sign these two:

Manase =#FF0000Manuokafoa, Pele =#FF0000Peletelese

He'd get a better return on shirt sales - you do pay by the letter don't you

But you've said "apart from Thomas Leuluai". Which makes your whole point totally invalid. The fact is Leuluai, Eastwood, Webb have all represented NZ WHILST playing in Super League.

You know exactly what I mean Keith but I'll explain it for you one more time...

Had Eastwood been Australian, and in the same circumstances (i.e. 22/23 Years Old, International Fringe player with a chance of becoming a regular in the National Team) he simply would've not even considered a move to the UK. You know that.

Isaac Luke or Nathan Fien would still be considered for their national team if they were to sign for a Super League club. Cooper Cronk or Cam Smith would not.

Stop being an idiot now. I'm bored.

Eastwood never represented the Kiwis whilst at Leeds. He represented the Kiwis before he'd played for Leeds and he represented the Kiwis after he'd left Leeds. Webb made 16 incumbent full back appearances for the Kiwis between 2004 and 2006. Whilst at Leeds, he made 1 appearance for the Kiwis in 2008 and has not been seen since in a Kiwi shirt.

You cannot justify a statement like [i"They (Kiwis) still get to represent whilst playing over here" [/i on the basis of such flimsy evidence, particularly when the overwhelming evidence points to far more Kiwi players sacrificing their international careers and being discarded once they join a Super League club, which is particularly the case with the selection policy of the current Kiwi coach. It'll be interesting to see if Jeff Lima bucks this selection policy trend by getting selected for the 2011 Four Nations Kiwi squad, now he's a Wigan player in Super League.

Oh, and there's no need for the dummy-spit responses just because you've been challenged on an opinion you are erroneously dressing up as a statement of fact.

Did Lyon play for Aus in 2006

He did but he'd already left St Helens to join Manly. Had a shocker IIRC against GB in Sydney and was dropped. Replaced by Justin Hodges for the rest of the Tri Nations tournament. I doubt he'd have been selected had he still been contracted to Super League for 2007.

I'd be inclined to agree with Batley's point in all this.

Currently there is only one Kiwi player in SL worthy of selection in the current New Zealand Test team and he isn't even on the overseas quota list apparently.

I think it's a quality issue rather than a policy to exclude issue.

I'd say it's a bit of both - the coach will want the maximum time available with the squad for something like the Anzac Test. If he's having to wait for one or two players to fly over, then get past the jetlag/time difference it's going to seriously eat into his preparation time.

Easier to just pick players who are already southern hemisphere based.

Additionally, I wonder whether there's a little bit of "out of sight, out of mind" about it? If you see players offering what you're looking for right under your nose, why look on the other side of the world?

It is hard for this individual to resist his deep rooted traits regardless of his (percieved) intelligence.

However, for what it's worth I think tvoc has summed it up correctly.

I agree with tvoc...

In fact, I did say myself a whole page ago:


It wasn't meant to turn into an argument, just a simple observation that an SL club is more likely to sign a top class, in his prime Kiwi, than it is a top class in his prime Aussie. That was it. That's the whole point.

My rationale for this argument was that the Australian in question would have to forfeit SOO and International tournaments, where as the New Zealander would be less likely to have to.

Apologies for any confusion caused RR. I agree with your observations above and in my view your rationale is sound.

In the post where I originally quoted you I was of course refering to our resident WUM Mr Swiftcorn and his all things Austrailian 'Agenda'.