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| Quote ="rhinoms"=#FF0000I don't agree with every call no but i'm more than happy that they chose to retain Donald rather than throw Broughton a 1st team start which they clearly didn't think he was up to.'"
Which is all I have done yet you think I should refrain from expressing it.
Quote ="rhinoms"Whatever the quota was "intended" to be is pointless it had more holes in it than a cheap T-bag and rightly scrapped not least because of legal reasons.'"
When was it scrapped, I wasn't aware that it had been. They introduced a 'cajones clause' that allowed existing UK based overseas trained players to challenge their classification. Some will have and some won't have, indeed John Kear has said Ben Jeffries is on quota and that despite him playing over here for the last eight seasons continuously.
Quote ="rhinoms"If we don't "break" any rule then of course i'm happy that includes the cap. Afterall isn't up to the CEO to best use his resources whithin the guidelines set? '"
Yes he should but IMO he and all the other CEO's also have a moral obligation to the game to not find ways around what the RFL are trying to achieve. Didn't the SL clubs all vote in favour of the new quota regulations when they were introduced for the 2008 season?
So if Webb, Donald, Leuluai, Lauitiiti all applied to come off the quota (which they may all have done already anyway) and Leeds brought in another three overseas trained in addition to Delaney, Buderus and Eastwood bringing up their total to 10 you'd be unconcerned? If it's within the watered down rules lets go for it.
Quote ="rhinoms"Other than been australian what reasons can you think of for giving Broughton Donalds place in the team when he hasn't earned it?'"
Donald in 2009 was so, so for me. I'd have liked to have seen one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop given the opportunity to see if they could match or even exceed Donald's so so performances.
With Lee Smith back in the fold do you see Scott Donald getting a start when all the outside backs are available for selection? |
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| Quote ="tvoc"
Leeds have more 'overseas trained' in their squad than the quota was intended to allow in 2010. I think Leeds were wrong to do that. '"
A fallacy discussed at length before now.
Quote If Leeds found a way around the salary cap would you go along with that also?'" There are legitimate exemptions to the basic salary cap which Leeds take full advantage of, just as there are legitimate exemptions to the overseas trained quota which Leeds take advantage of. They're right to do so or the more hard to please supporters within our fan base who wouldn't consider a season like 2009 as an unqualified success would be on the back of the management for not providing the coach with a strong enough squad, as they were during last season. |
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| Quote ="G1"A fallacy discussed at length before now. '"
The existing overseas quota in 2007 was 3 + exemptions.
The new overseas quota introduced in 2008 was 10.
Do you think the RFL (supported by the SL clubs) increased the quota by 7 because they wanted to create more opportunities for 'non home country qualified' players to participate in SL? |
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| Quote ="tvoc"The existing overseas quota in 2007 was 3 + exemptions.
The new overseas quota introduced in 2008 was 10.
Do you think the RFL (supported by the SL clubs) increased the quota by 7 because they wanted to create more opportunities for 'non home country qualified' players to participate in SL?'"
I don't think the main objective had anything to do with quota players at all and I think you've missed the point.
The new rules introduced, for the first time EVER a minimum requirement for club trained players. That is an area where the RFL were force other clubs to follow the lead set voluntarily and admirably by Leeds, St Helens and Wigan. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Which is all I have done yet you think I should refrain from expressing it.
When was it scrapped, I wasn't aware that it had been. They introduced a 'cajones clause' that allowed existing UK based overseas trained players to challenge their classification. Some will have and some won't have, indeed John Kear has said Ben Jeffries is on quota and that despite him playing over here for the last eight seasons continuously.
Yes he should but IMO he and all the other CEO's also have a moral obligation to the game to not find ways around what the RFL are trying to achieve. Didn't the SL clubs all vote in favour of the new quota regulations when they were introduced for the 2008 season?
So if Webb, Donald, Leuluai, Lauitiiti all applied to come off the quota (which they may all have done already anyway) and Leeds brought in another three overseas trained in addition to Delaney, Buderus and Eastwood bringing up their total to 10 you'd be unconcerned? If it's within the watered down rules lets go for it.
Donald in 2009 was so, so for me. I'd have liked to have seen one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop given the opportunity to see if they could match or even exceed Donald's so so performances.
With Lee Smith back in the fold do you see Scott Donald getting a start when all the outside backs are available for selection?'"
I'm not saying you should refrain at all just don't see any point in it nor do i agree with your "moral" obligation line either.
Re-signing Lee Smith highlights to me what i already thought about GH ,he will do what he and the coaching staff deem best for the club by delivering quality recruitment when he can and when it's available.
It also highlights a great cap/squad management by the club which you were one of it's harshest critics last year because you perceived him to be doing nothing re-recruitment when the Beastwood deal hit visa issues.
As for comparing Donald and Smith that isn't the issue is it?
I thought we were dissagreeing on the club not deeming Broughton good enough to Ditch Donald for this year.
Fwiw i think Smith is 1st choice form permitting but his versatillity also offers the coach the chance to rotate the back line as was intended with the forwards at the start of the season. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"
Leeds have more 'overseas trained' in their squad than the quota was intended to allow in 2010. I think Leeds were wrong to do that. If Leeds found a way around the salary cap would you go along with that also?'"
Isn't that what the images rights stuff that was being talked about a while ago amounts too |
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino"Isn't that what the images rights stuff that was being talked about a while ago amounts too'" It's also what paying Leeds the prize money from competitions amounts to. Exceptions to a rule provided for by the RFL.
There's enough idiot fans of other teams making insinuations about us without our own fans lambasting us for breaking an imaginary rule that we haven't even broken. |
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Quote ="G1"I don't think the =#FF0000main objective had anything to do with quota players at all and I think you've missed the point.
The new rules introduced, for the first time EVER a minimum requirement for club trained players. That is an area where the RFL were force other clubs to follow the lead set voluntarily and admirably by Leeds, St Helens and Wigan.'"
Whether it was the main objective or a secondary objective is neither here nor there really as one is a direct consequence of the other.
If you introduce a system that broadly distinguishes between an 'overseas trained quota' and a 'UK trained quota' within the permitted 1st grade squad size of 25 (for the salary cap) any increase on one side of the equation leads to a corresponding decrease on the other. The results were the same regardless of which way the RFL chose to sell the new requirements.
As was reported at the time the intentions of the RFL were clear:
www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ayers.html
[iSuper League clubs have agreed to wean themselves off their dependence on overseas signings.
Several sides regularly field up to 12 overseas players, taking advantage of the Kolpak ruling, grandparentage and European passports but now the Rugby Football League are to act to close the loopholes.
From next year, at least five members of a first-team squad of 25 must contain players who have either graduated from a club's academy system or are aged under 21.
This will increase by one player each year until 2011, when a squad must have at least eight homegrown players. During the same period, the number of overseas players must be reduced from 10 to five.
Nigel Wood, the RFL's chief operating officer, said: "This new rule fulfils a long-standing objective to encourage clubs to develop young talented players. By giving them greater opportunity at the top level, it is likely to improve standards not only on a national level but also internationally. =#FF0000Over time, the number of home-born players in a squad will increase whilst the number of players who are not academy, Super League or National League club-trained will be reduced."
=#FF0000The 12 club chief executives passed the proposal at their two-day summit in Perpignan[/i...... |
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Quote ="G1"I don't think the =#FF0000main objective had anything to do with quota players at all and I think you've missed the point.
The new rules introduced, for the first time EVER a minimum requirement for club trained players. That is an area where the RFL were force other clubs to follow the lead set voluntarily and admirably by Leeds, St Helens and Wigan.'"
Whether it was the main objective or a secondary objective is neither here nor there really as one is a direct consequence of the other.
If you introduce a system that broadly distinguishes between an 'overseas trained quota' and a 'UK trained quota' within the permitted 1st grade squad size of 25 (for the salary cap) any increase on one side of the equation leads to a corresponding decrease on the other. The results were the same regardless of which way the RFL chose to sell the new requirements.
As was reported at the time the intentions of the RFL were clear:
www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ayers.html
[iSuper League clubs have agreed to wean themselves off their dependence on overseas signings.
Several sides regularly field up to 12 overseas players, taking advantage of the Kolpak ruling, grandparentage and European passports but now the Rugby Football League are to act to close the loopholes.
From next year, at least five members of a first-team squad of 25 must contain players who have either graduated from a club's academy system or are aged under 21.
This will increase by one player each year until 2011, when a squad must have at least eight homegrown players. During the same period, the number of overseas players must be reduced from 10 to five.
Nigel Wood, the RFL's chief operating officer, said: "This new rule fulfils a long-standing objective to encourage clubs to develop young talented players. By giving them greater opportunity at the top level, it is likely to improve standards not only on a national level but also internationally. =#FF0000Over time, the number of home-born players in a squad will increase whilst the number of players who are not academy, Super League or National League club-trained will be reduced."
=#FF0000The 12 club chief executives passed the proposal at their two-day summit in Perpignan[/i...... | |
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| Quote ="tvoc"
As was reported at the time the intentions of the RFL were clear:
.'"
Indeed they were. I'll go even further than red type and super-size their intentions for you.
Quote www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/07/06/22/RUGBYL_Super_Players.html
[iSuper League clubs have agreed to wean themselves off their dependence on overseas signings.
Several sides regularly field up to 12 overseas players, taking advantage of the Kolpak ruling, grandparentage and European passports but now the Rugby Football League are to act to close the loopholes.
From next year, at least five members of a first-team squad of 25 must contain players who have either graduated from a club's academy system or are aged under 21.
This will increase by one player each year until 2011, when a squad must have at least eight homegrown players. During the same period, the number of overseas players must be reduced from 10 to five.
Nigel Wood, the RFL's chief operating officer, said: "[size=150This new rule fulfils a long-standing objective to encourage clubs to develop young talented players[/size. By giving them greater opportunity at the top level, it is likely to improve standards not only on a national level but also internationally. =#FF0000[size=150Over time, the number of home-born players in a squad will increase [/sizewhilst the number of players who are not academy, Super League or National League club-trained will be reduced."
=#FF0000The 12 club chief executives passed the proposal at their two-day summit in Perpignan[/i.....'" Like I said, the objective was to encourage clubs to do what we have been doing for years and produce their own young players. |
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| Quote ="G1"Like I said, the objective was to encourage clubs to do what we have been doing for years and produce their own young players.'"
And how do you achieve an increase in 'Home Born Players' without a decrease in Overseas Trained players? You don't that's how, they go hand in hand.
As the RFL's CEO Nigel Wood explains: "Over time, the number of home-born players in a squad will increase =#FF0000whilst the number of players who are not academy, Super League or National League club-trained will be reduced."
I wonder where these 'players who are not academy, Super League or National League club-trained players' originate from. Could it be overseas?
As I have said from the outset the two go together. You cannot increase one without decreasing the other. Put the emphasis on which ever side you choose but the result is the same.
And in addition I'm sure you won't have missed the last sentence either where according to the report: =#FF0000The 12 club chief executives passed the proposal at their two-day summit in Perpignan.....
That always formed part of my argument re the new quota system that the then club CEO's backed it only to sack it when it came to it's implementation after Gene appealed his classification. I can well imagine 'Mr 80/20 split' being to the fore in those discussions leading the case for reform yet here we are in 2010 and his own club is exceeding the overseas trained quota as the RFL intended and the club CEO's voting in favour of.
It surprises me not one iota to see the posters prepared to ignore these contradictions when they arise within the club that they support. They will, at the same time, be ridiculing other clubs for their reliance on overseas trained players and their inability to produce their own Home Grown players to the required standard. |
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