Here is my post on the Saints board.

"In some ways I'm going to defend McGuire.

The England pack were poor early on, Peacock, Morley and Roby(with ball in hand) in particular.

It was only when Burgess and Crabtree came on that we started to go forward.

It's almost impossible for the halfbacks to perform when the pack is poor.

However, McGuire defensively was poor and looking at his stats in todays League Express 8 tackles made 5 tackles missed and 3 handling errors is poor by any standard, particularly when Lee Smith also missed 5 tackles and concede two penalties.

I actually felt sorry for Tom Briscoe as he was the sacrificial lamb.

Again I question Smiths selection, that starting pack was the same that got battered in Melbourne, and conceded the majority of the tries down our right hand side.

We badly needed a quick defensive second rower to shore up that side. The selection of Peacock in the second row was wrong, and contributed to McGuire and Smiths poor performances."

just too add.
We (England) were far better when Sinfield went into the dummy half (hooker) role.

The forwards and half backs started to get good, fast accurate ball.

One bad game and your all crying like big babies.

Even when the guy plays well you still hammer him to me that is the biggest sign of Jealousy.

I am sure he does not care what any of you lot say as medals speak for themselves.

Give these players a chance.

Your all ranting and raving about Tomkins and Eastmond sure they have talent but how long until they are found out.

i can't wait to see tomkins next season as he is a very talented player but
i do believe that teams will quickly realise that he nearly always uses his left foot step when attacking the line,so i would theirfor imagine that he may well get lined up and smashed a few times more next season.

Indeed, because his new coach wont work on that at all will he.

Care to tell me when Mcguire HASNT had a bad game in international colours (except against nz's 3rd team)

Did the World Cup Champions field their 3rd team against England in the semi final of the last world cup? Your lack of knowledge is duly noted.

McGuire's far too unorthodox in the SO role IMO. Given the rigid reliance most SL teams put on game structures, there's very little prospect of players from other teams tuning into his wavelength sufficiently quickly with the result that all too often they receive the ball while standing still, if they recieve it at all.

We don't need to tell a numpty like you anything because you still come back talking bollox!!

I think you will find that that view was also shown by a former International player, clearly he knows his RL although I had to disagree that Sinfield was at fault on three occasions when the Aussies broke the line.

Having said that it fits the "We are Leeds" agenda of those on here to blame a 19 year old winger who didnt know whether he as having a sh(i)t or a shampoo based on the carnage happening inside him!!

Best line him up in a front of a firing squad then.............along with several others who hardly contributed,especially in that 1st half

You'd think people would know better than to come on here and criticise a squad with young talent, melded together with a few more experienced heavyweights aimed at bringing a brighter future. After forty minutes of poor play they're already being criticised, along with a coach who's got no technical skills, or gameplan. After next weekend, he'll have no doubt lost the dressing room too.

For those England fans who come and criticise McGuire, Sinfield (although we know that tinyrod's just gutted because Sinfield bought the bigger house next door for £400k), Shenton, Tompkins and Briscoe welcome to our world, southstander.com home of the s and the four times champions.

We've seen this before at club level, and it hasn't shafted us too badly of late.

I'd expect St Helens fans to possibly recognise this, but there's no hope for the Wigan fans. They'll be looking at an England side filled with residency players instead.

He was one of only a few players to come back from last years wc with any credit imo.

What??

SL sides don't play with any structure, its 100 miles/hour (in the context of the standard being discussed) with of the cuff headless garbage.

The one team that does play to a structure is the one which has one SL three years running - amazing that isn't it.

Now compare that to the Aussies who are robotic in their game plan with every member of the unit knowing his exact role and position in the side.

The current state of SL in producing quality is an absolute embarrassment to those involved in any strategic planning - if there is any.

WTF are you on about, you think people are critical of a 40 mins performance, what about the WC and the last 20 fooking years of looking like a bunch of second rate pricks?

Yes, and we've played youth all the time during that past twenty years chasing Australia haven't we?

Maybe if all these wonderful potential England players that are being kept out of their rightful England jersey by such inadequate Leeds players could actually play better during the season then the obviously inept Leeds players might not get rightfully selected.

What's the other little nugget we've had over the England squad. Oh yes, too Many Warrington players.

Well guess what? These Warrington and leeds players only went out and won all the trophies in the domestic competition.

Now, if all these Great players at other clubs didn't hide their lights under a bushell all season long then maybe the selectors might notice them and give them a chance and maybe all these players, playing well within themselves all season long at clubs who win fook all, would wallop the Aussies and the Kiwis.

Then again, maybe, just maybe, these players are the best we have got and they're simply not as good as their antipodean counterparts? Maybe, just maybe, we don't have any alternatives because clubs like Wigan, Bradford and many, many others have for many years been woefully inept in comparison to Leeds and Saints in producing, and playing, young English players.

So, that being the case, maybe the fans of other clubs could STFU until their own teams put their houses in order and we finally have some decent young players playing at all clubs throughout the competition.

You know, maybe Lee Smith is not good enough for England. But I'll tell you what, the likes of Pat Richards, Cameron Phelps and George Carmont aren't exactly providing Smith with great alternatives in the threequarters now are they?

Good post.

Smith and Mcguire were so far out of their depth it was laughable. Get over it

Yes they were. Who are the Saints English players they were keeping out of the team then? Why did those players not play better than Smith and McGuire during the domestic season to earn an England jersey?

I'm hated - really?

I thought I was popular, having said that you know what they say, hate in terms of definition is very close to love so perhaps the majority on here all very much love me but dont want to admit it.

having said that, if they really do hate me though, and I mean really hate me then I apologise for what ever I have done to warrant it.

I would have Pryce any day of the week over McGuire, having said that, that really is the true definition of lack of availability!!

Smith should be playing FB for me, but having said that Briscoe has been pretty good if you ask me.

Is that why Leeds have let him go and signed Delaney.
Is that why you got rid of Mathers and Calderwood and signed Donald and Webb?

BTW I'm not saying you are completely wrong, if it was a GB side Richards would be in.

I would also have given Michael Lawrence a chance. There is no one more supportive of young players than I am

Tomkins, Briscoe, O'loughlin and Hock (idiot) are all Wigan lads, not from Castleford and Oldham if you get my drift.

Wigans academy and reserve sides are producing the likes of Tomkins (x3) Hansen, Prescott, O'Carroll, Mossop, Goulding (although he hasn't progressed as much as I thought he would.

Good debate though.



Leeds academy this season was the worst I've ever seen it in recent times.

I dont hate ya tinyrod!!! FFS I dont even know ya!!!

yet ask any Saints fan and they will tell you he's been terrible this year. On what basis are you handing out international appearances?

A position he's not really played at club level since about week 3 of the season. Yet you still think he's Englands best at that position. You might be right.

Had he played at full back on Saturday do you think the result would've been ANY different?

So you keep saying but if the team is picked on "form" DM has outplayed him in the last 3 GF'S which is the biggest game of the year he's also been more consistent within the SL season so your opinion is shot to pieces by the respective performances!!
We know mcguire was poor on saturday as were many others but championing a player he's comfortably out-played isn't even a reasonable argument.