Chase played like Ray Charles last night.

The guy is pretty wise ....he knows his level. Cas are welcome to him: hugely disappointing and flattered to deceive earlier in the season.

I never tire of this argument.

Rangi Chase wasn't being asked to do any different a job for England than he is every week for Castleford - get his hands on the ball and create chances for himself and those around him. The number on his back and where he was named on the team sheet is completely irrelevant as an argument for defending his performances.

McNamara even picked a half-back partner similar in style to the one he has for his club, one who takes the side around the field and allows him to pop in and out of the game as he pleases.

If he had been named at 6 with Danny Brough alongside him at 7, his role and contribution would not have changed one iota IMO.

Danny Brough should be first choice SH....although i would also argue the Gaskell and Lomax partnership be given chance to flourish.

I'm also a fan of Luke Robinson as back up hooker.

Burrow doesn't do too bad off the bench either

Any of the halfbacks mentioned would have struggled to kick well under the pressure that was put upon them by the Aussies on Saturday.

We need a pack going forward to create the time and space for the halfbacks. Something that rarely happened on Saturday.

Spot on. We always like to think our pack is better or at least as good, but we were beaten in the forwards and many of the forwards have been disappointing in the series as a whole. Players like Peacock, Heighington, Ellis for instance.

I don't whether it's because they play the game so well and so are fresher or are simply fitter than us but the Aussie forwards seem to do more work than ours, especially in their off the ball work. Every time Lockyer or Thurston runs across the line there are plenty of options with props and back rowers putting that extra effort in to put themselves forward as a support runner. Or they collectively put the effort in to close down the kicker, something which we generally don't do very well.
Far too often our forwards are taking a breather.

We're also far too soft, there aren't enough in the England squad willing to properly mix it with the Aussies. Every time the game gets close against the Aussies they get more aggressive and we don't. Out of the current squad there's probably only Westwood and Chase who's up for a scrap.

I also didn't have to be a tactical genius on Saturday to notice the aggressive purpose with which the Australian dummy runners approached the line. The execution had to be good to avoid obstruction, but rather than just pulling up or jogging in, the runners went rhrough the line, or into the face of their opposite number. All done inside the law, and must create real uncertainty in the defensive line, which in turn allows a bit more space and time for the runners on the outside.

It also isn't rocket surgery to see the work they do in the wrestling after the initial tackle impact to turn the opposing player on his back. We need to get to ground and play the ball quicker, and do better in defence at holding them up. I think even Eddie spotted that.

That's a very valid point. There was a time when we could always give them a good thumping even if we lost the match. But I wonder if all the Sky generated hysteria against anyone going high has led to a generation of players afraid to mix it. In the context of an international Thurston's high shot on Hall was relatively mild. But some of the hysteria & calls for a red were ludicrous. Notwithstanding if Barry Mac or similar had been playing there would have been a mass brawl following that incident & a few Aussies looking out for a bit of protection themselves for the rest of the match.

When your front row "enforcers" are both past pension age, it would have taken them so long to actually get over to the incident that it would have been all sorted anyway.

Like them or lump them, Sculthorpe and Farrell were never overly shy of a bit of biff with the Aussies.

Obviously brawling has no place in our family game, he lied.

They're having to play on because the coalition Govt has put back the time when they can claim their pension.
I expect to see Samkins still playing for England/GB when he's 50

What we need is a half back pair combination like Andy Gregory and Shaun Edwards, some who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck and turn the game upside down. Match winners are inspirational to all which encourage all team members to exceed their best performances and breed success. After all confidence breeds success and success breeds confidence.

The point about biff is a good one.

After that shot on hall, thurston should have been in fear of his safety for the rest of that game. The forwards should have been breathing down his neck. Nothing. Not even a borderling late shot after he's kicked the ball.

We have way too much respect for them. Why does one of our forwards never take a shot on one of their key playmakers early on to rattle them?

This is afterall 'test match footy', it's tougher and more physical and generally the refs tend to let more go. The aussies take this advantage but we don't.

All this lack off biff only reinforces the fact Bailey should have played

You're confusing biff with niggle.

That's all well and good but for 80 minutes our forwards couldn't get near either of their halfbacks due to their forwards dominance.

Niggle is an essential part to kicking the Biff off. And to be honest there wasn't much niggle in the England team either

Biff usually needs at least 3-4 incidents of "niggle" to precipitate. We had about that number of incidents of "niggle" before Senior gave Wilkin the slap a couple of seasons ago. However, in internationals it was traditional that the only thing needed to intiate major biff would be the first scrum (I'm sure some players would knock on deliberately in the opening 5 minutes of any test match just to get going).
There were enough scrums in the England - Australia game for the English forwards to sort things out had they so desired. Having said that we would have needed to ressurest the likes of Fred Lindop to officiate, any of the softco*k generation of refs we have now would have abandoned the match. These "Dougie Howser's" of the RL world are too gutless to red card near decapitations yet would be totally unable to grasp the concept of international biff.

Worst of both worlds. High shots "put on report" , biff outlawed.

well said, but in the england team there were only two maybe three players I have seen "sort things out2 and unfortunately there about duw a pension.

Was it not a scrum that kicked the peacock fight of in the WWC?

Regarding Senior putting the jack of all trades squarely on his bottom, I recall him helping him up before putting him back down, anyway it got me thinking. Bailey did the same thing to Kevin Brown this year and there was outrafe.

On report should be scrapped at all levels but it makes absolutely no sense at international level. Will Isaac luke miss a game against england, no, it has nothing to help the team who was fouled.

If its bad enough to go on report, its enough for a yellow IMO
I believe reffs are scared, both of the aussies, and of spoiling the game and in regards to biff giving a sport with minute coverage a bad image. Thats why ganson should ref he dosent give two hoots what anyone thinks.

The problem is the ref's abuse the on-report system. It isn't supposed to be there as a cop-out but for when there is genuinely a case where the ref didn't see something. I cant recall which one but it was one of the internationals (think it might have been Wales v Australia but I could be wrong) where there was a bit of a scuffle just after a try and at the half-way line before the next kick-off the ref brought the 2 captains together and put the incident on-report. Thats fine by me, and is what the system was brought in for.
The Isaac Luke incident though was just a first class cop-out by a gutless referee. IIRC the ref even said to Luke "you deliberately tried to hurt him in the tackle". So the ref had seen the incident, gave a penalty but still put it on report. Ridiculous.

As for biff - we are sorely lacking it at international level for England, the only one in the series who looked up for it was Westwood. We need a Barrie Mac and Sculthorpe back, (or Morley in his prime) someone who the Aussies are genuinely wary of and who will dish out the biff at almost any opportunity.

Cop out pretty much sums it up and it becomes even more apparent at international level that that is the case.

I totally agree regarding your example of when it should be used but you'd hope that in general play between three of them ref and 2 flag men, they'd be able to see most of whats going on and not have to resort to report. The issue off useless touch judges however is for another thread.

Would there however be a way to speed the system up i.e. hand it to Video ref, then at least the team who was on the recieving end gets some out of it, rather than next weeks team getting an advantage.

Morely Barrie Mac
Peacock Brain Mac
sculthorpe
A fighting pack to be feared, not to mention senior in the backline. That wins half the psychological battle

A few years ago I saw an old video of an early 70s test. IIRC Rod Reddy bit Jim Mills; Jim reacted by nutting Reddy & snotting him a couple of times on the way down. Not one Aussie came anywhere near.

I'm pleased you mentioned that example.

It really is quite laughable to hear of the more modern examples of legendary hardness involving players like McDermott, Morley, Sculthorpe and Senior.

Pussycats compared to players from the 60's and 70's.

I forgot to mention, again IIRC, Lindop was the ref, he penalised the Aussies & just got on with it.