Like last season, we'll win more of the major trophies on offer than leeds will this year.

Aren't you the one who claimed last year pre wembley that leeds would win a major trophy again before Hull did?

I'm confident leeds won't win the GF if they play us or cas on the way

Exactly. He made himself look stupid bleating to the press about things his own team does

None of which happens in the NRL where there are 2 refs and players have learned to adhere to the rules or suffer the consequences. It doesn't happen when thaler and bentham are reffing because the players know they can't get away with it

Isn't that a bit of a forlorn hope Seth? Why would professional coaches do that when their careers and their players careers depend on getting every possible advantage to win games? If I was cynical I'd say that coaches will try and push rules to the limit to gain an advantage if they can profit by it. We see it at every play the ball with all the protagonists trying to get an advantage so you get players locking each other in and lying in the way and peeling off as slowly as possible making an awful spectacle.

I also remember when coaches wanted to bring in the interchange rule and have unlimited substitutions. It was dressed up as a safety measure but it was really just a safety net for coaches to ensure no tired players were vulnerable on the field. In the end the NRL got rid of the rule because they saw it for what it was.

The governing body needs to grow a pair and decide that it's going to sort out the PTB. It can be done. It never used to be as bad as it is now. I think it will take rule changes to make it happen.

Well not really seeing as though he said Leeds were guilty of it also.

The one on Hulls line when he literally just let go of the ball was quite pathetic.

It probably is but as a mutual coming together to save a game thats deteriorating rapidly i live in some faint hope. From a coaches perspective ive found it more beneficial for my teams to focus on the pure aspects of the game and maintain that ethos with pushing boundaries to gain an advantage being detrimental in the long run. A prime example being the number of times you see the first marker tied up just leaning on the player playing the ball, and they get cut apart behind the ruck, if their focus was on the ball and their positioning instead of slowing the PTB theyd be more effective.

Think the Maguire way of coaching is largely to blame. It was successful so was copied. We now have some bloody awful cynical tactics.

Hopefully the Powell model will be successful and that will be copied instead. It would least improve attacking play if not a lot of the PTB antics.

I'm more than happy to bookmark that little gem for future reference.

The only way to solve this is to have two refs, but with the dogs abuse they get its tough enough to have a full set for 1 per game...

People won't like it but the supporters actually share a large portion of the blame here.

I've said it before - the PTB can easily be fixed and doesn't need a rule change, just the actual rules to be applied. It could be fixed quite quickly, simply send out a memo to all teams stating;

- Once a player is tackled (elbows hit the floor) or referee calls held, all defenders must release the attacker and clear the ruck IMMEDIATELY - this does not mean manouvering back to the marker position as part of clearing the ruck, it means get out of the way via the quickest route - failure to release and clear immediately will result in a penalty EVERY TIME
- Attacking players must regain both feet, place the ball on the floor and play it with their foot. This means getting to both feet, not only 1 foot and 1 knee and then lifting your knelt leg/foot over the ball that has remained on the floor - you must regain both feet, lift the ball from the floor and place it back down to be played by the foot. Failure to do so will result in a penalty EVERY TIME

There's an arguement that making the defenders release will lead to PTB being too quick, but the requirement to regain both feet and play the ball properly would slow the PTB back down to negate that. The 'voluntary tackle' rule would also need to be correctly applied to stop attacking teams simply diving to the floor in attack to get a quicker PTB.

And whilst I'm fixing the game, on the same memo, I'd also tinker with the stripping interpretations to get rid of the other current lottery of is it a strip or a knock on. The onus is on the attacker to have full control of the ball, only if there is a clear stripping action would there be a penalty - this would require the attackers to carry the ball in 2 hands, again slowing them down to redress the balance of the defenders having to release and clear once tackled. If you're carrying the ball into contact with just 1 arm, and it comes out because the defenders attack your ball carrying arm, or put pressure on the ball, it's a knock on - the attacker needs to protect the ball. Only if there is a clear raking at the ball should it be a penalty.

This would no doubt lead to a penaltyathon for the first couple of weeks, but the players and coaches would soon fix that and IMO the product would be much better!

Problem solved...

I agree.

When asked about refereeing over hear at a recent fans forum Geoff Toovey said there weren't enough of them for the quality to be good enough. He said in our league we often get young refs that were promoted beyond their ability because of the shortage. The game needs to make refereeing more attractive - i.e. less abusive. So fans do need to wind their necks in.

However I think if refs said they were going to all start enforcing the rules at the PTB and blowing up more things would improve after an initial few weeks bedding in - provided interpretations weren't then relaxed later. Superted has it right.

I remember in 88 or 89 a new directive came in that any contact with a players head would lead to an instant sending off. Players got a blanket 8 match ban. It soon cleaned the game up. Maybe a zero tolerance approach is needed to PTB offences now? I'd also add in moaning to the ref as that is getting way out of hand.

This will not improve whilst ever players cheat and try and con the referee - players need to clean their act up - simple.

No ref, no game

maybe if the two refs and getting the decisions right will mean fans |(or m ost of them) wint need to get on the refs back so much. i am also in firm favor of having in goal judge at every game whether video ref is their or not. at least two of last nights trys would have probably be given on the spot. and a couple of the no trys would have been disallowed. without the need of the video ref. video ref should only be used as an absolute last resort.

Agree 100%. This is also a problem in the NRL. Every game we see players protesting against decisions, shouting at the ref, even swearing at the ref or in their protests. Again a simple fix - protest a decision, penalty/walked a further 10 meters, do it again, 10 mins in the bin. Shout/swear at a ref - OFF...

We used to pride ourselves on our respect towards the referee - we need to get this level of respect back - pronto. But there's more we need to do to make the referees job easier.

Ours is a simple game, with simple rules - that's what makes it such a spectator friendly game. For some reason, over the years we've introduced 'interpretation' into our rules and that has muddied the water. Make the rules black and white, apply them consistently and you'll get more respect from the players - and when you don't get the right level of respect, come down on them like a ton of bricks.



Agreed - but again, as a game, we should make the referees job easier and remove/reduce the opportunities for teams to exploit the rules.

We need to get away from referees 'coaching' teams through a game. Simply apply the rules, and if they're broken, penalise it - every time.

As an example, the offside rule - we now only penalise an offside player if he directly interferes with play - so teams take advantage of this. Defenders on the blindside of a ruck are nearly always a couple of meters offside, so when the hooker looks up, he see's there's no space down the blindside, so goes openside. They're not penalised for being offside as they've not directly impacted play, but they have influenced the attacking teams direction of play. Same with offside kick chase - they might not be offside and within the 10, so there to make a tackle, but their presence stops the kick receiver from running towards their area of the pitch. If they're offside - penalise them - every time.

Sure, there would be a period of time where the refs are blowing the pea out of the whistle and the games will be ruined - but the teams will soon fall into line, or risk being penalised out of the game.

With consistent application of simple rules, the referees will get more decisions right, everyone will know exactly what to expect (if you're offside, you'll be penalised, if you slow down the PTB, you'll be penalised, if you don't regain your feet to play the ball, you'll be penalised) and naturally the referees will get more respect from everyone. You'll drastically remove the ability for coaches/teams to exploit the rules/interpretations and the game will ultimately be a better spectacle.

What would help is an influx of ex players running the line.
The linemen in todays game just do not get involved enough or see what they should be seeing on the field.
At least they should be able to cut out a lot of the forward passes in the game as one of them should always be in line with play.

No more than hall trapping fonua's leg and profiting from it with a penalty or jjb throwing himself forward then putting the ball on kelly's head. Conning the ref is the same no matter where you do it or how you do it

I'll look forward to you digging it out in a few weeks

Problem is not all coaches will be bothered about that and want to sort it out. You can get 8/9 of the current SL coaches come together and put together an effort for their teams to not play this cutting corners style but if you get 2/3 against it and profiting with cheap penalties that lead to wins then it's an uphill battle.

As someone else pointed out, jobs and careers are on the line and you'll always have some that only care about getting the win because losing at this level isn't a luxury that you get. A coach that refuses to have his players cut corners might hold a moral high ground but as long as refs are allowing other teams to benefit from it how much will his moral high ground be worth when he's out of a job with bills and a mortgage to pay.

So it does have to start with the refs, they have to show it won't be tolerated, pointless a coach telling his players only for them to see the opposition or two other teams on Sky get away with it.

Yes yes we know, like every team that gets some success after a layoff you are now going to win every single big game from now until rapture, and dominate like never before. We were the same after 2004 - cock 'o' north.

Your posts reek of this attitude, here's some friendly advice, pipe down. You only set yourself up for a fall which is guaranteed to come because no one wins all the time.

I have no attitude and after watching Hull for almost 40 years I'm well aware that any periods of success are always brief. I'm just enjoying the angst amongst you johnny come lately leeds fans who have been brought up on success who believe it's a god given right and sit around wringing your hands when it doesn't happen. As for setting myself up for a fall, I guess I'll have plenty of loiners fans down there to soften the blow

I think that i can safely say that I am certainly not a "Johnny come lately" Leeds fan as my first ever game was the 1977 CC Final,I can also guarantee you that after our 2 CC final wins in 1977 & 1978 that I certainly haven't been brought up on success.

When the 5hit5 hit the fan at Leeds I will most definitely have been in the crowd that day,and there's been plenty of those in my 40 years of watching the club, But IMO that has certainly made me enjoy our golden generation of success even more and I certainly have never taken any of those trophy wins for granted as you never know when the next will come

As for your tongue in cheek trolling about our very recent drought of trophy wins, then us Rhinos fans have 7 Grand Final wins, 3 World club challenge wins, 2 Challenge cup wins and 3 League leaders shield wins to soften the blow!



Lets hope that your club's short period of success brings you the same rewards as ours,then you really will be able to rub it in and gloat

I seem to remember Warrington winning a couple of CCs and getting giddy like this gomper. Nowt new.

but we are talking about your Hull team not yet getting to that position yet .there have been some interesting results tonight . You are not certain of making the 4

Ooh look another melt craving attention.
Im confident just like Wire you'll give plenty of gob after brief success in the CC but fall away eventually & be amongst the "NEARLY" men of SL when it comes to sustained success over a prolonged period.