Warrington are a very difficult animal to predict this coming season. They showed at times last season they were capable, but then at others were medicore. Without knowing specifically what wrong behind the scenes they are difficult to call. If they get their combinations right in pre season and the attitude is right across the squad then they should be up in the top 4 challenging.

It's gonna be their year. It always is

Well they've never really got it right in the halves since Briers retired so much depends on how Sandow does for them. I know he had a few games for them last year but their chances had gone by then.

Yeah a third trophyless season for Wane would be hard for him to defend. For me they have two issues

- firstly, can Tomkins come back in and fit in alongside Williams? Williams is a different type of HB to the ones that were there when Tomkins was in his first stint at the DW. Previous HB's kept things ticking whilst Sam was the X Factor player, but Williams is more an X factor player at HB looking to be the one to do something special and not just keep things ticking.

- secondly props. Had a look the other day when people were taking the mick out of Mossop's numbers. But it's not just him.

Number of league games a prop has made 100m or more in this season

Mossop - 4
Crosby - 5
Tautai - 5
Flower - 1
Sutton - 2
Clubb - 3

Compare to others

Peacock - 25
Cuthbertson - 19
Garbutt - 6 (in just 10 league games)

Walmsley - 25
Amor - 11

Hill - 25
Simms - 9

Whilst Wigan are still able to win games and be on the brink of titles with their setup, you can't help but think how much stronger they'd be if they signed a prop whose going to be the standout one of the pack like we've had with Peacock and Saints with Walmsley who can give you 100m+ games most weeks of the season.

Nail/head.

IIRC there were a few games early doors when Sinfield was out of the team that were lost on kicks.

Paitence Paitence Paitence it's that simple imo.
We haven't lost as big an influence on our team since Harris left for RU albeit accepting we were more of a 1 man team back then but when you add in JP as well that's bigger than some may expect.
Kylie is a Legend but i honestly think in Garbutt his replacement is more than adequate ,there are gonna be many questions this year and different kinds of pressure on the squad and Coach but given time i'm 100% sure they'll get it right.
Finally i know i've said it before but i'll say it again you don't "Replace" Sinfield and JP you "EVOLVE" just like we did when IH left Sutty is his own player and should not be compared with KS in any way nor expected to carry that burden.
The same applies within the Pack we simply don't have a another JP but we have a pack capable of doing the graft and laying the platform albeit differently to how JP provided it.
Hopefully we get to at least 1 final and win the WCC whilst seeing the likes of Lilley ,Walters ,Baldwinson etc break through to make more of a mark on the team.

I picked Wire to finish top this year, but won't be making the same mistake again. Their pack isn't quite strong enough in depth (front row especially) for me to compete for trophies .I do expect them to have a better season and probably make the 4 next time but that will be as good as it gets imo.

But Wigan use their second row and outside backs more than most teams to make those meters. They play a wide game hence Burgess and Manfredi being the top try scoring pair of wingers in the league. It's been like that for the last six or so years.

Look at Dan Sarginson stats he would have been up there with the top metre makers had he not suffered that injury v Leeds at Wigan in July.

The same applies to Gelling who missed a big part of the season after tearing his hamstring against Wakefield in April.

Leeds will be in the last eightr sure. Not sure how long it will take the newteam to click but I hoe we use the preseason friendlies wisely to allow the new combinations to work out th 'nicies'

I recall it took the backs a while to get used to cuthbo's offloads

Rhinoms has sumned it up nicely

Yes I know how Wigan play but to have so few 100m+ games from your props I would find disappointing and area that should be improved, whether that can come from the current guys or a signing needs to be made.

I showed how many games Peacock, Cuthbertson and even Garbutt have achieved it in compared to Wigan yet Hardaker, Watkins and Hall all made more metres than ANY Wigan player so we're hardly slouches at getting metres from backs also. Going off his metres last year then Briscoe might well have been another had he not missed so much of the season.

The GF was a prime example of the need for a top prop. We were knackered over the last few weeks and particularly the start of that second half especially in the middle of the pitch in the forwards yet your starting props made just 8 carries each for about 50m+ and 60m+ respectively. Someone like Walmsley would've ripped us to bits but wouldn't stop you from still getting metres from out wide also.

Seems to sum things up.

I think the biggest hole will be left by the personalities of Kev and JP. Both of them just radiate an aura and a presence. You can see a little bit of it in Stevie Ward, but we need to find a forward who takes it to the oppositions big men and demands respect. Sam Burgess would have been the one. Ideally we need to grow one of our own, I don't think there is an English forward in SL at the moment who would do it - even if we could sign anyone - which we can't.

Looking forward to it.

Those figures are alarming
I'm so glad that we got a top quality player in Garbutt rather than that Super League plodder Mossop,although i wouldn't have any one of those Wigan players named at the Rhinos

i think that we will miss sinny & jp massively,but this day was always going to come where another player must take on some of their responsibilities

i am actually looking forward to seeing which players will take on these roles,it's a shame that stevie got such a serious injury because he would have been one of our leaders without a doubt

we look pretty good up front despite jp and kylie retiring and i certainly wouldn't swap any of our front row options of garbutt,cuthbertson,galloway,
singleton and mullally for any of those wigan players named above

Chris Houston being told to look elsewhere by the Knights. 30 years old, if Achurch is being released to go back to Australia a decent, experienced replacement?

Erm, no.

Hardaker
Briscoe Watkins Moon Hall
Sutcliffe McGuire
Galloway Falloon Singleton
Ward Ablett
Cuthbertson

Burrow Garbutt Mullally Delaney

SR: JJB, Keinhorst, Minchella, Walters, Achurch (if doesn't leave).
FR: Baldwinson, Mulhern (possible loan to Hull KR).

We're certainly pretty close to 25 even without Handley/Golding/Lilley. If the squad stays as above we'd have to look at a few more loans for next year.

We'll certainly be lacking the big game nous that's helped us to thrive when things are tight.

We'll probably end up playing without that restraint.

It could be a lean year.

Alternately, we might blow everyone off the park and play some scintillating stuff to boot.

Bring it on.

I make it 27 with Mulhern and Achurch included.

1 Hardaker, 2 Briscoe, 3 Watkins, 4 Moon, 5 Hall, 6 McGuire, 7 Burrow, 8 Galloway, 9 Falloon, 10 Singleton, 11 JJB, 12 Ablett, 13 Sutcliffe, 14 Ward, 15 Delaney, 16 Garbutt, 17 Cuthbertson, 18 Keinhorst, 19 Mullally, 20 Walters, 21 Minchella, 22 Handley, 23 Baldwinson, 24 Lilley, 25 Golding.

That would be my guess if Mulhern is to go to Hull KR on loan and Achurch is to leave.

I thought Minchella had gone/is leaving??

Not certain yet, apparently.

Yes it is

1. Hardaker
2. Briscoe
3. Watkins
4. Moon
5. Hall
6. Sutcliffe
7.McGuire
8. Galloway
9. Falloon
10. Garbutt
11. Ward
12. Ablett
13. Delaney

14. Burrow
15. Singleton
16. Cuthbertson
17. Achurch

That leaves Golding, Handley, Keinhorst, Walters, Lilley, Mulhern, Mullally, Baldwinson and JJB. 26 in total, although I can see Mulhern going on loan somewhere.

It'll also be interesting to see how Stevie Ward kicks on. When he first came on the scene he was talked of in a traditional loose forward way - very much Sir Kev's successor. Since then he's been utilised as a (very good) second row. Be interesting to see if the ball-playing side of his game can kick on and give us a fifth pivot along with Hardaker, Sutcliffe, McGuire and Falloon

You want a fifth ball handler? I'd say you want everyone to be able to pass, but too many cooks and all that.