The spin continues...

It's a difficult one isn't it. Putting party politics aside for a moment, its not a good situation when the debt of the country is going up at an increasing rate. Whoever was in charge now would be dealing with a very tough situation, and regardless of the promises made by any of the parties prior to the election, they would all have to make decisions that would be unpopular wiht the public. We could debate all night regarding the speed and depth of cuts required, but what is certain is that some are.

There is no easy answer to this, I'm not convinced there is even a right one, but the country generally cannot continue to rack up debt at the rate that it was. I

t's also certain that we could not continue to employ so many people in the public sector, as each one takes more from the "government pot" than they contribute, meaning that they are adding to the debt rather than reducing it. Public sector workers do a very good job in difficult circumstances (particularly at the moment), and I genuinely feel for those who are (or will be) facing redundancy, but we have to realign the size of the public sector to a more sustainable level. However if jobs are not created for the mass redundant public sector workers to go to, then all we are doing is swapping paying a salary to someone for work, to paying benefit to someone for no work, and that's not a step in the right direction. I don't see anything like enough initiatives to create the jobs, and therefore additional revenue for the government rather than additional cost, so this is looking like a very long road at the moment.

Whatever is to come, the country would do well to stick together at this time rather than descend into mass strikes and anarchy as that will only make a difficult position worse.

Agreed.

The working classes should always bend over and take it up the clacker during any crisis of capitalism.

That's their role.

So you're one of those deficit deniers are you? I suppose you don't accept that had Labour still been in power they would have been cutting at least 15 of every 18 pounds that the Coalition are planning?

You should plan your next holiday in Greece, Portugal or Ireland and see how bad it could have been.

I would never vote Labour - but Cameron is out of his depth - he hasn't got a clue.

Having said all that Brown and his party are not completely blameless - the banking crisis happened around them but spending on public services had got out of hand - the levels were unsustainable going forward something Brown was unable to accept.

The less said about the gold the better - perhaps as Jeff has intimated you really shouldn't let the working class politicians loose with serious stuff like running an economy - it always ends the same way when Labour get it huge spending on public services huge national debt - what's it called tax and spend?

Labour, Tory, Lib Dems... they all dance to the same tune.

I leave party politics to those who actually believe there's a significant difference between any of these self-serving moreporks.

I don't disagree - this is the worst government we have had since Callaghan - bunch of halfwits.

To get back to the original point it will be a tragedy if the expertise in Leeds is lost to the people of Yorkshire and Humberside

My Granddad, God rest his sole, once said about an upcoming General Election “…it’s like trying to choose which deckchair to sit in on the Titanic”

It doesn’t matter which party you vote for, at the end of the day you’re always going to get sh[size=100i[/sizet on.

You can only go by how they set their stall out at election time, Labour set out their timeline for their own version of the cuts, the current incumbents seem to be ruling by means of threatening to cut the budget of everything and then waiting to see who doth protest the loudest, its the closest thing we've ever come to having a government who rule by referendum - on everything.



PS - I'm going to Corfu in August.

I don't know anyone who is a deficit denier.
The real argument is about what should be cut, how deeply and how quickly.
Before the election, David Don't-bother-me-with-detail Cameron and George Chancer-of-the-Exchequer Osborne were fully aware of the figures for the size of UK debt and what deficit levels were being run but nonetheless told us that the NHS was safe from cuts.
They lied.
Big style.
And are now using the deficit as a foggy screen from behind which they can dismantle the Welfare state.

It's not that long since Osborne was telling us that we should be following Ireland's example.
And we are supposed to trust his judgement?

One of the most insightful and accurate posts I think I’ve ever read on this forum.

Great post El B.
I'll also add re-Greece ,Portugal etc Cameron and Osbourne questioned about this when they declared £650m of aid to Pakistan to which they both replied "as one of the richest countries in the world" we are duty bound etc etc.
You can't have it both ways JC and i'll go as far as saying we wre NEVER gonna end up like Greece and Portugal.

Glad you know your place Keith, stand in line, the nurse will be along with the lube any minute now.

Would you seriously trust Brown/Darling either?

There has to be cuts - if you take the stance that everything is a holy cow then where do the savings come from?

Labour had the view to continue spending and hope it would sort itself out before they had to make serious cuts - hope is not a strategy!!

I do know my place Batley. Unfortunately, austerity measures will necessarily lead to a reduction in the availability of both nurses and lube.

While you're content waving the national flag and urging everyone to stick together for the good of the country, just remember this is a crisis of capitalism caused by speculative financial spivvery of the worst kind within the private sector which is now... conveniently for some... being played out as a crisis of over-spending in the public sector.

And when the austerity measures really kick in hurting the most vulnerable in society, I do hope any flag-waving jingoism on your part in response to any potential strikes, anarchy and unrest on the streets does not descend into scapegoating easy targets like the poor, the unemployed, the sick, single mothers and immigrants.

I like the saying and it is quite accurate!

Its interesting to have the benefit of hindsight and see what the politicians and financiers were saying before last years general election ... [urlhttp://www.labour.org.uk/the-tories-putting-the-recovery-at-risk[/url and while the 2011 Labour budget was already written and in the public domain and described as a budget to maintain the economic growth that we were seeing at the time whilst considering reductions once the economy was stronger, we can see that the likes of Vince Cable, the man who sounded like he knew what he was saying while there was still no chance of him ever having to walk the walk (how he must have s[ihit[/i himself when the prospect of the coalition arose), also opposed huge swathing cuts for 2011 and even Cameron himself was quoted as being cautious.

How on earth we ended up electing a duopoly who hadn't actually announced their economic intentions prior to the election is beyond me.

because after years of brown and liar smarmy blair people had had enough.
had labour had a charismatic,clever leader they would have got in again. as it was they were a shambles

You're probably right there, the next election is theirs to lose but they haven't found a figurehead yet...

i'm not yet convinced by cameron but to be fair he needs time. he inherited a mess.however there was no real alternative which the vote showed. nobody knew who not to vote for

I haven't made any assertions that this wasn't a crisis driven by completely irresponsible and thoroughly greedy bankers, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to remind me of something I already know.

For the record, it's appauling that the vulnerable in society will be under more pressure now than they were previously. They need support, not criticism, however they also need to help themselves too wherever possible.

Given the perilous financial state we are in at the moment, do you think it would be wise for us to see mass strikes and walkouts? That's what you seem to be advocating to me?

A more pertinent question might be...

Given the perilous financial state we are in at the moment, do you think it would be wise for us to bail out the latest crisis of capitalism just so that the bankers and the financial spivs can do it all over again? That's what you seem to be advocating to me.

What is your problem with people having the freedom and the right to withdraw their labour anyhow?

You are right it would be a pertinent question, however what are the realistic alternatives? Without every country having the same approach to the financial spivs (as you lovingly call them) such that they don't just bail out of Britain at the first opportunity, how exactly do you suggest we hold them to task over their ridiculous behaviour? I don't like it any more than you do, but I don't see any realistic alternative that wouldn't have horrendous consequences for the country's economic prospects for recovery.

Oh and I don't have any issue with people having the freedom and right to withdraw their labour, I just don't think it would help at the moment.

I signed this petition outside an Asda in Castleford I think. I remember me and our lass driving towards Oulton and ending up somewhere near Cas eating at a Chinese buffet with a Asda over the road. I signed it 4 times using different names.

Rebellllll.

Gary at the previous election Labour said we would all get a vote on the EEC membership until it came to the crunch!! Anyone who takes the manifesto seriously needs a labotomy to see if there is anything inside their skull.

Labour did not want to cut public sector spending yet didn't have a strategy for boosting growth - as I said earlier hope is not a strategy.