I admit you're better than us... But to be clutching at the smallest straws of success as you are is amusing to see.

I was coming online to say something similar. I think you've summed things up really well there. Four in a row was always going to be a tall order, and it's been a credit to the players we have put out on the park this year to accomplish what they have. I've said it before, teams need a breather. Saints have breathers and now it's our turn.
It's going to be interesting to see how we cope without McGuire and Peacock for the first 4 months of next year and how strongly they come back. I'd like to see us sign a top quality, big go-forward prop and someone who can make an impact off the bench (back row or half back). I'd like to see the club look to bring BJB back into the set-up and have him develop on the wing and gradually bring on Watkins as Senior's replacement at 4.
I hope the guys play with a little more panache next year, and under less pressure. Attacking skill is where you win games against defences that slow you down and refuse to make mistakes. We have, McGuire apart, lacked the flair to do this consistantly enough. The guys have it, but it's not flowed naturaly enough this year.
I would add that we have gone into the last three playoff series fully fit and firing, it's so important as there is so little between winning and losing against the best.

I also, have no set expectations for next year. But we will be there or thereabouts, we will be in the mix at the end of the year and there is every chance of silverware. Isn't that nice to be able to think that. Not many clubs supporters can.

Congratulations to the guys, by no means a failed season and once again some tremendous moments to cheer.

Enjoy your break.

We finished 3rd. That's a fact I'm afraid, not straw clutching.

In terms of expectations, a lot depends on the playing style we adopt. If we persist with the style we have had over the last couple of years, of a flat line attack and hoping for a bust and offload to a fast support player, without McGuire and our coaches insistence on playing a loose forward at stand off we will continue to slip down the league, but only by a place or two. If we decide to play a structured attack with more depth, and play Webb at 6, BJB at 1 and Sinfield at 13, we can then start to move forward and have more options with ball in hand.

One of the reasons that Wigan defended so well tonight, and they were superb, was that we didn't have enough players in motion around the ball. IMO for years we have structured our attack around offloads and fast support players, but we don't seem either fit enough or fast enough to do this anymore, and the lack of questions that we asked the Wigan defence meant they could cover most or all of what we threw at them.

It's worth noting that Saints have been without their main playmaker (Pryce) for a number of weeks and have still made the final, so by comparison we have one or two questions to answer in this regard. A look in the "points for" column will also reveal the same.

JP has been a major loss, and without him we have really struggled for go forward. This has been compounded with the loss of Burgess, but has revealed a major issue to be dealt with in the off season. We simply must find another top grade metre maker before the start of next season or we will be facing a big problem. The return of McDermott should really help both the pack and the discipline which is good news.

On a positive note, I don't remember ever seeing any team in any sport have more mental strength and determination than this Leeds team, and for this McLennan needs to be congratulated. We have some good young kids coming through in BJB, Watkins, Clarkson (who was a little out of his depth this evening, but that's not his fault) and Ambler, all of which need to see more structured game time next year.

The break that we will now have as a result of not having so many players on tour, and not having to prepare early for the WCC is a real bonus as we looked very tired towards the end of this season, a symptom of a number of years short off seasons.

So expectations are top 4, in with a chance of the GF again, and semi's of the cup.

We started the season with arguably the strongest squad ever, or so we thought. As the season progressed it was obvious that we rely to much on individual effort and brilliance. Peacock in the forwards and Danny or Sinny. They have an off day or are injured, and we struggle for the spark needed to open up defences.

GH will have already thought about the age and composition of our squad, and I'm sure we will see at least 2 or 3 new faces being brought in for next season. We can hope that some of the youngsters can progress, but I reckon we may have seen the last of our old warhorse Peacock.

Not a bad season by any means....I'll take a CC Final and a semi final GF play off any day....it just seems a hell of a long time till February

I've always had no expectations for next year, glad to see you are finally seeing the light. I now fear that the club are acting too late to have any expectations for 2012 also. We should have been going through a big transistion next year, not over two years.

I agree with most of what's been posted on here.
I have been amazed at how much difference Maguire has made to the Wigan team with essentially the same squad that Noble had.
I was surprised that the Wolves - despite winning the cup - had a relatively disappointing season considering the squad that Smith has assembled.
But Saints have most to pleased about, despite not having their one major signing available for most of the season & losing both their halves, they have reached the Grand Final & blooded many youngsters.
In view of both Wigan & Saints recruitment for next season I think that we will have to stay injury free & develop defensively under McDermott to be in with a chance of emulating let alone bettering our efforts this season.
Nevertheless, I'm already looking forward to next season but with lower expectations than this.

I also agree with most said by the previous posters. Well done the lads for their sheer guts of going down to the wire in both competitions when not at their best.

Having said that we must not ignore the clear signs af a team who are moving past their peak. Without McGuire we lack a sharpness in attack with a noticable lack of guile and pace at centre. IMO Delaney is a carthorse who gives his winger little chance of scoring and was a bad bit of recruiting.

From a coaching and tactical point of view we have been overtaken by several other clubs who have a clearer tactical game plan. Other teams know how to slow up our PTB and close down our key players. We still have a game plan that simply relies on the outstanding individual skills of just a few players. Our lack of a penetrating attack and our decline in a tight defence has been evident all season which has been extenuated, but not caused by, our unfortunate injuries this year.

Saints have continued to remain at the top because they recruited a team full of ball players and a go forward game plan based on speed and backing up in numbers. We have a team which on paper looks good but in practice is getting a little tired as advancing years and injuires take their toll.

We no longer have the speed which was such an important part of our game. We are losing Donald our fastest man while Senior, Burrow, Webb, Ali, JJB, Diskin, Smith have all lost that extra "yard" that previously put them clear. We never replaced Ellis's skills and now will lose his promising replacement too early. Add to this the fact that for half of next season we will have to do without two of our most influencial players and you will see we have problems to solve.

On the other hand we do have some good young prospects returning or coming through but none that have shown electric pace or superstar skills.

In summary I would say we have to accept that we need a couple of seasons to rebuild and give the youngsters a chance or we have to replace the likes of Ali who is a shadow of his former self, and Delaney, Kirke, Bailey who are just not good enough for a championship side. We need to recruit a class go forward prop as a matter of urgency and a young half back with promise.

To finish on a positive note the players are to be congatulated on giving of their best and rising to the challenges. We now need the management to do the same.

Some very astute comments.....said it for a while: ñext season will be one of low expectations and a year of transition. Top 8 forget the GF and give the CC a good go.

This year has only been as " successful " as it has been because of the match winning ability of McGuire ( who has stayed injury free for the season )... and the remarkable team spirit.

Let's hope we will get the signings needed sooner rather than later.

I expect a few teams to take their eye off Leeds. I think we will see new improvement with brain mac coming in. I also expect gh to bring one or 2 signings in. I think we will be in for a trophy or 2. I don't see any reason why we can't finish top.

What do you think he will improve? Harlequins have gone backwards each year under him haven't they?

the one big worry for you leeds fans has to be how will mcguire recover from his injury. its a really bad one to get. he is not an organising 6 and his effectiveness is his speed to exploit a gap and quickness in broken play. if he loses a yard of pace after this injury you will lose some of that spark to unlock tight defences. burrow doesnt seem to be the player he has been in the past and your front row is aging. senior has looked alot less effective in the centre and less of a threat from what i have seen of him this year, still strong and has a great off load but he is much easier to contain nowadays due to naturally losing pace. if leeds are entering a transistional period, i hope its a short one, the competition needs a strong leeds side.

structure, disipline, fitness.

As much as you say quins went backwards, they have been let down by recruitment and injurys. I think of the quins that were around the top of sl and turning Leeds over with awesome displays as well as a team that has struggled at times.

McGuire isn't as big a concern as Peacock in my view. The guy doesn't have time on his side and he, for many years, has played far too many games. This idea of him being a 50-60min+ prop, as well as playing in every play-off series and international tour has to end (it wouldn't surprise me if he, reluctantly, announces his international retirement in the next 6-8 months).

As for this season, there's no doubt that it has been a tough one. The injuries to key players have obviously been a big blow throughout different stages of the season. Add to that, last week was the first break the team have had since January 29th. 35 consecutive games (one of which with a side depleted with international call-ups) is a massive ask for any club.

After targeting the CC so clearly this season, I was highly sceptical that the players could pick themselves from the Wembley debacle. To their credit, the really put in a solid effort in these play-offs.

I agree with most of that but am still surprised the GH/Coaches gave so many of the out of contract players 1 year extensions for next season.

I would agree with much of what you posted, but this has me baffled. What exactly have Saints accomplished that we haven't? They were not at "the top" last year, we were. They haven't won the SL title since 96 and last year they were potless, a situation that could also be the case this year.

There is a leaning towards Saints, even from our fans, that I find very strange. They seem to be forgiven failure in a way our team isn't. They are a great club, but we have edged them for quite some time now. If Saints have "continued to remaion at the top" then where have we been?

You do have expectations. You expect us to fail. You always expect us to fail.

I agree with a lot of whats been said and I do think its time to start the transition and blood some new players and maybe add 1 or 2 to the squad. I'd move Delaney into the back row and bring Watkins into the centres. I agree with some that Delaney hasn't been great in the centre but along with Peacock offers more meters per carry than any other player in the team, and he averages about 20 tackles a match. He should be moved into the pack where I think he could become a real gem of a second rower. Also as has been said bring BJB in and move Wbb to stand off to cover for McGuire. We need to try and get some pace back into the team, its a shame we couldn't keep Brouhgton as I think he would've been an excellent replacement for Donald.

My expectation is that Leeds will come into next season with more eagerness than ever and that we’ll win something. That challenge cup run until the final was pleasurable to see. Hopefully we can have it all season long rather than just for all the important games.

It’ll be Brian McLennan’s last year and this is probably the biggest challenge of his coaching career yet in getting a beaten side back on track. It should be exciting

My point was not just about the silverware but about being consistently in the finals and consistently delivering fast attractive rugby. But as you mention it - in the 14 years of SL Saints have been Grand Finalists 8 times and Champions 5 times against our 6 times finalists and 4 times champions. In the same period they have won the Cup 5 times and been losing finalist once against our one win and 3 loses in the Cup finals. So you would have to say they have a superior record over the full period of SL.

Our overall performances have also been very good and the recent ones brilliant - but Saints are there yet again finishing 2nd and in the GF whereas we have fallen behind. They have had their share of injuries but they still field a side full of ball players and they are playing a more attractive game than we are.

My point is that they have remained at the top with a consistent brand of rugby which is to be applauded. IMO despite our GF successes the quality of our rugby has declined over the last two years (when Ellis last played) and we have not adapted to changes in the PTB interpretations etc. I am not having a rant - just an observation

Yes it makes more sense for Delaney to move to the pack than Senior. He could become another McKenna who was much better in the pack. But we must get some pace back in the centres. Against Wigan when Sinfield scored he showed better centre play than Delaney has done all season.

GH has got it right much more often that wrong, but at the moment Delaney is looking like a mistake. He has a lot of improvement to do if he's really "Leeds class"...

I'm not sure delaney is a mistake. He may not be the most creative centre, but you can't have stars in each position. I think its only viewed a problem, as Senior is on the decline, which means we lack good cutting edge on either wing

I'd imagine a similar sort of finish next year, all the other teams seem to have strengthened whereas we've (as of yet) got nobody in.