|
 |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"We didn't want him, Hull didn't want him and they're the two clubs that got the closest look.
'"
If Leeds didn't want him why did they offer him a new deal (G1/rhinoms), it was in the LE and everything apparently (rhinoms)
Once Leeds chose to extend Donald's contract then Broughton stayed where he was in the pecking order. I wasn't surprised he left in that circumstance.
My point then (as I'm sure you recall) was that I felt it was time to say thank you and bon voyage to Donald (on the assumption that he was also a quota player with further reductions on the way) and give his squad place to one of Broughton (wing) / Watkins (centre) / Jones-Bishop (full-back)
There are players who have found themselves playing on the wing in 1st grade for Leeds this season that are much less accomplished in the position (IMO) than Jodie Broughton.
Quote ="leicester_rhino"Interesting comparison stats wise, and Broughton does seem to come off better. But there are many other factors. SUch as for 60% or last year, Donald was playing with a new Centre partner every week, and even when settled, was not a natural centre playing there.'"
Why the latitude afforded to the settled wingman in the champion team (Donald's 2009 stats) in his fourth continuous season of almost unbroken starting appearances?
Meanwhile Broughton was making the step up to a higher level, settling into a new squad where he wasn't an automatic pick, combining training with his new team-mates in unfamiliar surroundings with his college course in Doncaster (IIRC a morning course curtailing some of his time with the rest of the Hull squad), playing for a team on a season long slide in to the bottom three. Despite all that 5 tries in 7 appearances. This season more settled but still with a struggling outfit at the wrong end of SL.
No, on reflection I think you're right, Donald had it real tough by comparison. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"If Leeds didn't want him why did they offer him a new deal (G1/rhinoms), it was in the LE and everything apparently (rhinoms)
'"
I didn't see rhinoms provide you with any link so assumed you were correct and my recollection was wrong. Are you now accepting Leeds offered him a deal or do you still want evidence of that?
Quote Once Leeds chose to extend Donald's contract then Broughton stayed where he was in the pecking order. I wasn't surprised he left in that circumstance.'" Nor I. It was the right thing for us and for him.
Quote My point then (as I'm sure you recall) was that I felt it was time to say thank you and bon voyage to Donald (on the assumption that he was also a quota player with further reductions on the way) and give his squad place to one of Broughton (wing) / Watkins (centre) / Jones-Bishop (full-back) '" Not one of those players is a better winger than Scott Donald. Your major concern last year when it came to the right centre was that a quality player fill the jersey and you criticized GH for not scouting overseas players for that position. Your assumptions regarding the quota have been shown to be wrong.
Quote There are players who have found themselves playing on the wing in 1st grade for Leeds this season that are much less accomplished in the position (IMO) than Jodie Broughton.'" Should have hung about then shouldn't he, if you're saying he was offered a contract. He might've been able to cement a place and prove you right, As it is he headed for the dizzy heights of Salford.
Quote Why the latitude afforded to the settled wingman in the champion team (Donald's 2009 stats) in his fourth continuous season of almost unbroken starting appearances?'" Sorry, run that by me again.
Quote Meanwhile Broughton was making the step up to a higher level'" icon_smile.gif Can you quantify that. What higher level?
Quote No, on reflection I think you're right, Donald had it real tough by comparison'" You've lost me. You might have to be a bit less cryptic with the point you're making.
Let me ask you, if Broughton was all that, given he was free to go anywhere, why did he end up at Salford? |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="G1"I didn't see rhinoms provide you with any link so assumed you were correct and my recollection was wrong. Are you now accepting Leeds offered him a deal or do you still want evidence of that? '"
Evidence would be useful to clarify the situation one way or the other. As it stands you and ms believe it to be the case whereas I have no recollection of such an offer. Are you withdrawing what you previously said just because I don't recall it? Sat here 100 miles south of Headingley I'm sure there's plenty I miss.
Quote ="G1"Nor I. It was the right thing for us and for him.'"
In your opinion but not in mine. On that I think we'll just have to agree to differ. If we substituted Donald and Broughton for Buderus and McShane would we be any closer to an agreement?
Quote ="G1"Not one of those players is a better winger than Scott Donald. Your major concern last year when it came to the right centre was that a quality player fill the jersey and you criticized GH for not scouting overseas players for that position. Your assumptions regarding the quota have been shown to be wrong.'"
Is Donald on or off quota? You presumably know, unfortunately I don't.
That said to me he is a born and bred Australian citizen, overseas trained (not a product of any SL team's academy) and before the 'new' regulations came about I'd expect to a degree of 99% certain that he was a 'quota' player. You can never be 100% on anything where the RFL are concerned. If he were to become exempt under the 'cajones' clause, again I haven't heard anything to that effect but accept I may have missed it.
Last season Leeds had ample space on their overseas 'quota' as defined here www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346 and salary cap money to spare (not least since Eastwood's contract was unexpectantly deferred 12 months.) Recruiting overseas was an option but not the only one, indeed when Gleeson became available we had the 'IF' post from G1 no less.
Quote ="G1"Should have hung about then shouldn't he, if you're saying he was offered a contract. He might've been able to cement a place and prove you right, As it is he headed for the dizzy heights of Salford.'"
It's G1 and rhinoms that say he was offered a contract, who am I to argue.
Quote ="G1"Sorry, run that by me again.
 Can you quantify that. What higher level?'"
Do you not think SL 1st grade is a higher level than Academy rugby.
Quote ="G1"You've lost me. You might have to be a bit less cryptic with the point you're making.'"
Which point? That SL is a higher level than the Academy. I'm shocked, especially as you repeatedly inform the masses that Jones-Bishop is learning far more (even despite of) the coaching he's receiving at the Harlequins then he would in Leeds' Academy.
Quote ="G1"Let me ask you, if Broughton was all that, given he was free to go anywhere, why did he end up at Salford?'"
It might have something to do with there only being 28 1st grade winger spots available in SL and of those how many were available (ie. not already filled by contracted players.) Leeds had Donald and Hall, St Helens had Gardner and Meli, Hull had Briscoe and Calderwood, Huddersfield had Hodgson and Cudjoe, Hull Kr had Fox and Colbon, Bradford had Sheriffe and Reardon, Castleford had Owen and Wainwright, Les Catalans had Bell and Pelo, Harlequins had Wells and Sharp, Wakefield had Blanch and George, Warrington had Riley and Hicks, Wigan had Roberts and Richards.
That left Salford and the Crusaders as having opportunities for 1st grade rugby in his chosen position. Of the two he perhaps didn't fancy South Wales (as it was at the time) and took the other option.
Why do you think young Australian coaches come to SL? Isn't it because there are only a limited number of 1st grade opportunities in the world of RL and it's a first step on the ladder. |
|
Quote ="G1"I didn't see rhinoms provide you with any link so assumed you were correct and my recollection was wrong. Are you now accepting Leeds offered him a deal or do you still want evidence of that? '"
Evidence would be useful to clarify the situation one way or the other. As it stands you and ms believe it to be the case whereas I have no recollection of such an offer. Are you withdrawing what you previously said just because I don't recall it? Sat here 100 miles south of Headingley I'm sure there's plenty I miss.
Quote ="G1"Nor I. It was the right thing for us and for him.'"
In your opinion but not in mine. On that I think we'll just have to agree to differ. If we substituted Donald and Broughton for Buderus and McShane would we be any closer to an agreement?
Quote ="G1"Not one of those players is a better winger than Scott Donald. Your major concern last year when it came to the right centre was that a quality player fill the jersey and you criticized GH for not scouting overseas players for that position. Your assumptions regarding the quota have been shown to be wrong.'"
Is Donald on or off quota? You presumably know, unfortunately I don't.
That said to me he is a born and bred Australian citizen, overseas trained (not a product of any SL team's academy) and before the 'new' regulations came about I'd expect to a degree of 99% certain that he was a 'quota' player. You can never be 100% on anything where the RFL are concerned. If he were to become exempt under the 'cajones' clause, again I haven't heard anything to that effect but accept I may have missed it.
Last season Leeds had ample space on their overseas 'quota' as defined here www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346 and salary cap money to spare (not least since Eastwood's contract was unexpectantly deferred 12 months.) Recruiting overseas was an option but not the only one, indeed when Gleeson became available we had the 'IF' post from G1 no less.
Quote ="G1"Should have hung about then shouldn't he, if you're saying he was offered a contract. He might've been able to cement a place and prove you right, As it is he headed for the dizzy heights of Salford.'"
It's G1 and rhinoms that say he was offered a contract, who am I to argue.
Quote ="G1"Sorry, run that by me again.
Can you quantify that. What higher level?'"
Do you not think SL 1st grade is a higher level than Academy rugby.
Quote ="G1"You've lost me. You might have to be a bit less cryptic with the point you're making.'"
Which point? That SL is a higher level than the Academy. I'm shocked, especially as you repeatedly inform the masses that Jones-Bishop is learning far more (even despite of) the coaching he's receiving at the Harlequins then he would in Leeds' Academy.
Quote ="G1"Let me ask you, if Broughton was all that, given he was free to go anywhere, why did he end up at Salford?'"
It might have something to do with there only being 28 1st grade winger spots available in SL and of those how many were available (ie. not already filled by contracted players.) Leeds had Donald and Hall, St Helens had Gardner and Meli, Hull had Briscoe and Calderwood, Huddersfield had Hodgson and Cudjoe, Hull Kr had Fox and Colbon, Bradford had Sheriffe and Reardon, Castleford had Owen and Wainwright, Les Catalans had Bell and Pelo, Harlequins had Wells and Sharp, Wakefield had Blanch and George, Warrington had Riley and Hicks, Wigan had Roberts and Richards.
That left Salford and the Crusaders as having opportunities for 1st grade rugby in his chosen position. Of the two he perhaps didn't fancy South Wales (as it was at the time) and took the other option.
Why do you think young Australian coaches come to SL? Isn't it because there are only a limited number of 1st grade opportunities in the world of RL and it's a first step on the ladder. | |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
I've no link to the contract offer tvoc just something i was told and i thought was in the LE article about his,Ratu and Gibsons departure.
Harrigan has already confirmed the offer to Gibson wasn't deemed goood enough by the player himself whereas Ratu and i'm sure(i stand to be corrected) Broughton also were offered "dual registration" which they turned down.
ATEOD if he was deemed good enough by the powers that be surely he'd of been offered a better deal no?
Imo at least i still think he's a long way to go to prove he's "one that got away" i was more dissapointed that we lost Ratu because i thought he was starting to show promise in the 1st team and now he's wallowing in the reserves at KR which is a shame.
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="rhinoms"ATEOD if he was deemed good enough by the powers that be =#FF0000surely he'd of been offered a better deal =#FF0000no?'"
Was Ellis when Leeds almost missed out on him, was Calderwood or Scruton or Gibson or Fox.
I think we know how it works at Headingley by now. =#FF0000If there is an offer made, it is almost always a first and final offer, in line with Hetherington's view of a player's experience, standing within the game, importance to the squad and affordability within the salary cap and I have no issue with that. That a player can often earn more elsewhere is well documented not least by the club captain's speech at the conclusion of last year's GF.
My issue was with the decision to re-sign Donald instead (as he was a quota(?) and presumably more expensive option) It's a similar position to the one advanced regularly on here in relation to Buderus/McShane. I at least try to stay on the same side of the fence.
Quote ="rhinoms"Imo at least i still think he's a long way to go to prove he's "one that got away" '"
Time will tell but he wouldn't be the first ex Leeds Academy winger to go on and forge a respectable career in SL once given the opportunity denied to them at Headingley (some even going on to gain full GB/England caps) and he doubtless won't be the last. |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"Was Ellis when Leeds almost missed out on him, was Calderwood or Scruton or Gibson or Fox.
I think we know how it works at Headingley by now. =#FF0000If there is an offer made, it is almost always a first and final offer, in line with Hetherington's view of a player's experience, standing within the game, importance to the squad and affordability within the salary cap and I have no issue with that. That a player can often earn more elsewhere is well documented not least by the club captain's speech at the conclusion of last year's GF.
My issue was with the decision to re-sign Donald instead (as he was a quota(?) and presumably more expensive option) It's a similar position to the one advanced regularly on here in relation to Buderus/McShane. I at least try to stay on the same side of the fence.
Time will tell but he wouldn't be the first ex Leeds Academy winger to go on and forge a respectable career in SL once given the opportunity denied to them at Headingley (some even going on to gain full GB/England caps) and he doubtless won't be the last.'"
That's exactly my point,IF he was deemed that good then surely the offer would of reflected that?
I'm aware of what others were offered in relation to their worth to the team so by offering Broughton what they did that reflected where they saw him in terms of potential and pecking order afterall if he was seen as an "elite" youngster he'd of been tied down to a long term deal ala Bjb,Watkins and Mcshane.
I agree he may go on to prove himself a quality winger but i still don't think he was ready to walk into Donalds place.
As for this quota you keep mentioning we are within it and have broken no rules so i don't see the problem and i'd also expect GH to replace quota players with homegrown ones who are deemed at least as good if not better. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="rhinoms"That's exactly my point,IF he was deemed that good then surely the offer would of reflected that?'"
Who has said that he was deemed that good by Leeds, I haven't, so it's a bit of a strange proposition. Broughton was an =#FF0000Academy player at Leeds with his only SL appearances coming while on loan at Hull. Leeds' offer (if there was one) will have been in line with that. The bulk of the serious cap money will have been allocated elsewhere, not least in the likes of Donald and Buderus' direction for example. As already indicated Leeds' offers can be bettered elsewhere and it (understandably at times) costs Leeds some good players that they probably would have liked to retain, never mind a player who was still to make his 1st grade debut with the club.
Quote ="rhinoms"I agree he may go on to prove himself a quality winger but i still don't think he was ready to walk into Donalds place.'"
I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
Quote ="rhinoms"As for this quota you keep mentioning we are within it and have broken no rules so i don't see the problem and i'd also expect GH to replace quota players with homegrown ones who are deemed at least as good if not better.'"
No doubt.
Gary Hetherington set himself a target of a 80/20 split (20/5), this season he's achieved 18/7 and missed his own target.
Scott Donald - on quota or off quota? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 15864 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2024 | Oct 2023 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"Who has said that he was deemed that good by Leeds, I haven't, so it's a bit of a strange proposition. Broughton was an =#FF0000Academy player at Leeds with his only SL appearances coming while on loan at Hull. Leeds' offer (if there was one) will have been in line with that. The bulk of the serious cap money will have been allocated elsewhere, not least in the likes of Donald and Buderus' direction for example. As already indicated Leeds' offers can be bettered elsewhere and it (understandably at times) costs Leeds some good players that they probably would have liked to retain, never mind a player who was still to make his 1st grade debut with the club.
I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
No doubt.
Gary Hetherington set himself a target of a 80/20 split (20/5), this season he's achieved 18/7 and missed his own target.
Scott Donald - on quota or off quota?'"
At the end of the day Broughton was not good enough to take a full time Wing spot at the countries top club. He was offered a contract that will have reflected his position as backup, but someone else (Salfrod), would give him a better opportunity, and maybe pay him more.
I don't see what Leeds or Broughton have done wrong.
You argument about McShane or Buderus is that McShane is currently 3rd in line for a position that has 1 starting position. Losing buderus, and leaving McShane to take up the slack would not leave us as exposed as having a player with little SL experience at Leeds as pretty much a guarunteed starter every week.
For the record, I would not let Buderus go, at least until his contract expries. |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"Who has said that he was deemed that good by Leeds, I haven't, so it's a bit of a strange proposition. Broughton was an =#FF0000Academy player at Leeds with his only SL appearances coming while on loan at Hull. Leeds' offer (if there was one) will have been in line with that. The bulk of the serious cap money will have been allocated elsewhere, not least in the likes of Donald and Buderus' direction for example. As already indicated Leeds' offers can be bettered elsewhere and it (understandably at times) costs Leeds some good players that they probably would have liked to retain, never mind a player who was still to make his 1st grade debut with the club.
I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
No doubt.
Gary Hetherington set himself a target of a 80/20 split (20/5), this season he's achieved 18/7 and missed his own target.
Scott Donald - on quota or off quota?'"
I'll tell you that i felt we let Connolly go a little early in terms of squad numbers but still thought Mathers was up to it as i did with Smith and Hall this isn't the case with Broughton but i would of liked to see Ratu stay but i back the clubs policy.
I'm sure you can find posts where i'm defending Hall as i did Gibson et al.
Like i said maybe we'll be proved wrong and good luck to the lad but i don't think he's one to "come back and bite us". |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"
In your opinion but not in mine. On that I think we'll just have to agree to differ. If we substituted Donald and Broughton for Buderus and McShane would we be any closer to an agreement?
'"
We might. Simply put, I think McShane has better potential than Broughton (in their respective positions) and I think the Antipodean keeping McShane out of the team hasn't achieved a fraction of what Donald has in the ENglish game, whatever his reputation prior to arriving here.
I judge players on merit. Donald has earned it as one of Leeds best wingers. Buderus has been massively underwhelming.
Quote Is Donald on or off quota? You presumably know, unfortunately I don't.'" At least one of Donald Webb and or Kylie are off quota and I see no reason why all three shouldn't be.
Quote That said to me he is a born and bred Australian citizen, overseas trained (not a product of any SL team's academy) and before the 'new' regulations came about I'd expect to a degree of 99% certain that he was a 'quota' player. You can never be 100% on anything where the RFL are concerned. If he were to become exempt under the 'cajones' clause, again I haven't heard anything to that effect but accept I may have missed it.'" And? So he might've been a quota player under the old regulation and he might not be under the current ones. Where are we going with this?
Quote Do you not think SL 1st grade is a higher level than Academy rugby. '" I do. That said, it's probably not a massive step up from from our Academy to Salford's 1st team 
Quote It might have something to do with there only being 28 1st grade winger spots available in SL and of those how many were available (ie. not already filled by contracted players.) Leeds had Donald and Hall, St Helens had Gardner and Meli, Hull had Briscoe and Calderwood, Huddersfield had Hodgson and Cudjoe, Hull Kr had Fox and Colbon, Bradford had Sheriffe and Reardon, Castleford had Owen and Wainwright, Les Catalans had Bell and Pelo, Harlequins had Wells and Sharp, Wakefield had Blanch and George, Warrington had Riley and Hicks, Wigan had Roberts and Richards.'" If any of those teams had considered Broughton a better option than their incumbents they would've signed him. They didn't. Bradford signed Reardon this off season. Reardon. They could've signed Broughton. They signed Reardon.
Quote That left Salford and the Crusaders as having opportunities for 1st grade rugby in his chosen position. Of the two he perhaps didn't fancy South Wales (as it was at the time) and took the other option.'" So, he didn't think he could oust the likes of Sheriffe, Blanch and Wainwright for their jerseys eh? Seems the lad has a much lower opinion of himself than you do. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 15864 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2024 | Oct 2023 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"
If any of those teams had considered Broughton a better option than their incumbents they would've signed him. They didn't. Bradford signed Reardon this off season. Reardon. They could've signed Broughton. They signed Reardon.
So, he didn't think he could oust the likes of Sheriffe, Blanch and Wainwright for their jerseys eh? Seems the lad has a much lower opinion of himself than you do.'"
 |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"I wonder how you felt when Richard Mathers was given an opportunity at Gary Connolly's expense or when Lee Smith and Ryan Hall were given the opportunity to win a place in the 1st grade. Those didn't turn out so bad.
'" Mathers got into the Leeds team at the end of 2002. He got a taste of first team action. The coaching staff then signed Connolly for 2003. Mathers was patient and waited for his chance. He took it with both hands.
If Broughton is as good as you and Salford think I wish he'd shown the same attitude as Mathers and waited until he'd earned his chance. Same thing with Hall and Smith, they got first team action, then dropped back into the Academy. Look at Smith's progression to 1st team regular.
Who knows, if Broughton had shown the same attitude and taken the same career paths as the three you name he too could have been a RL international, playing in the NRL or making a big money move to RU.
As it is, he's playing on the wing for Salford. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"I judge players on merit. '"
So I've noticed. =#FF0000Abysmal and Gash being a couple of the more astute observations.
Quote ="G1" Donald has earned it as one of =#FF0000Leeds best wingers. '"
From the ridiculous to the sublime. Hey ho.
I'm a fan of Donalds, I appreciate what he has done for the club. However he can't and won't stay forever. I thought he had intimated in 2008 that 2009 was to be his last season over here as he wished to return 'home' with his young family. That for me would have been the right call. Everyone in the game, I think, could see the RFL were seeking to increase the numbers of home grown players and that neccessarily meant the amount of overseas trained would have to reduce in line. Leeds 'perhaps' had already indicated to Donald that their limited quota spots in 2010 were going to be allocated away from the wing. I think Leeds have always regarded the wing as not being an overly critical area in the team and used on occassions as a proving ground for Academy starlets to cut their 1st grade teeth and it's an approach that has served them well in the past. That situation changed with the 'cajones clause' and Leeds were then perhaps minded to take the conservative approach and re-engage with Donald helping to create the best Leeds squad (on paper) since 2004.
Quote ="G1"So, he didn't think he could oust the likes of Sheriffe, Blanch and Wainwright for their jerseys eh? Seems the lad has a much lower opinion of himself than you do.'"
You'd have to ask him, I don't think anyone else would know the answer to that.
If the clubs already have their wing spots settled with contracted players there isn't much Broughton could do. As it is, he did a deal with a SL club that had a wing spot available and so far he is taking that opportunity with glee.
To imply that an Academy prospect somehow had the pick of the majority of Super League clubs or that the Super League clubs all bar Salford rejected him is far out dude.
Quote ="G1"If any of those teams had considered Broughton a better option than their incumbents they would've signed him. They didn't. '"
Why would they when they already had their wing positions covered by contracted players? In the age of the salary cap there are several factors to consider on retention, recruitment and succession planning.
Leeds had several options and they took the conservative approach in extending Donald's deal as was their right. That closed the door for another 12 months on Broughton at Leeds (unsubstantiated talk of a contract offer or not(?)) and he backed himself that he was ready to play SL and another SL club stepped in and gave him that opportunity.
While Leeds have been forced in to playing two part time players plus a recent amateur rugby union player (described by one poster as a 'desperate gamble' in Feb 2010) on the wing in Donald's absence, Broughton has continued his SL education and appears to be making good progress and earning complimentary reviews from coach McRae. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"Why would they when they already had their wing positions covered by contracted players? In the age of the salary cap there are several factors to consider on retention, recruitment and succession planning.
'" Nice side step. The Bulls didn't have their wings covered by contracted players. They signed Reardon this off-seaon.
Reardon. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"Nice side step. The Bulls didn't have their wings covered by contracted players. They signed Reardon this off-seaon.
Reardon.'"
The 28 year old former Great Britain International (try scorer V Australia), Grand Final winner, Harry Sunderland winner, fitting the criteria McNamara was looking for. I'll let Steve take over the point: [i"Everybody knows the quality of Stuart Reardon as a player and his ability to break tackles and get the ball over the try line. We're very excited to have him and Stuart is just as excited to be here. When he left Bradford Bulls he was still a young boy in a side surrounded by senior players. Now he is coming back as a senior player and we are very confident in his ability to be a fantastic player for us again." [/i
If you are looking to add an experienced player why would you consider a player (even a good one) just emerging from Academy rugby? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"The 28 year old former Great Britain International (try scorer V Australia), Grand Final winner, Harry Sunderland winner, fitting the criteria McNamara was looking for. I'll let Steve take over the point: [i"Everybody knows the quality of Stuart Reardon as a player and his ability to break tackles and get the ball over the try line. We're very excited to have him and Stuart is just as excited to be here. When he left Bradford Bulls he was still a young boy in a side surrounded by senior players. Now he is coming back as a senior player and we are very confident in his ability to be a fantastic player for us again." [/i
If you are looking to add an experienced player why would you consider a player (even a good one) just emerging from Academy rugby?'"
That's it. You quoted Steve McNamara as an authority. Need we go on?
Do YOU rate the present Stuart Reardon (the one discarded by Hull and Warrington, the one who has barely played in three or four seasons) as a better player than Broughton? If YOU were a coach would you sign Reardon in preference? Which presents more of a gamble, the three year injured Reardon or the emerging Broughton?
If Reardon, with his record and history of achievements in the game, is a better signing for the Bulls than Broughton why is Donald for Leeds not a better option given what Donald has achieved in the game during the last four seasons? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"That's it. You quoted Steve McNamara as an authority. Need we go on?
Do YOU rate the present Stuart Reardon (the one discarded by Hull and Warrington, the one who has barely played in three or four seasons) as a better player than Broughton? If YOU were a coach would you sign Reardon in preference? Which presents more of a gamble, the three year injured Reardon or the emerging Broughton?
If Reardon, with his record and history of achievements in the game, is a better signing for the Bulls than Broughton why is Donald for Leeds not a better option given what Donald has achieved in the game during the last four seasons?'"
Because Donald is an Aussie and we've broken tvocs non exsistent "quota" rules |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"That's it. You quoted Steve McNamara as an authority. Need we go on?
Do YOU rate the present Stuart Reardon (the one discarded by Hull and Warrington, the one who has barely played in three or four seasons) as a better player than Broughton? If YOU were a coach would you sign Reardon in preference? Which presents more of a gamble, the three year injured Reardon or the emerging Broughton?
If Reardon, with his record and history of achievements in the game, is a better signing for the Bulls than Broughton why is Donald for Leeds not a better option given what Donald has achieved in the game during the last four seasons?'"
Just to add that i may be wrong but i'm sensing a tvoc "agenda" with our strawberry blonde try machine.  |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="rhinoms"Just to add that i may be wrong but i'm sensing a tvoc "agenda" with our strawberry blonde try machine.
'"
You have to keep an eye on that with TVOC.
He always has an agenda. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 15864 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2024 | Oct 2023 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="G1"You have to keep an eye on that with TVOC.
He always has an agenda.'"
As do you and most people on here. Not many people come out of a discussion saying, well that certainly changed my view on things |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="leicester_rhino"As do you '" Moi.
Hrumph.
How very dare you! |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="rhinoms"Just to add that i may be wrong but i'm sensing a tvoc "agenda" with our strawberry blonde try machine.
'"
How so?
As anyone suggested you have an agenda re Keith Senior?
Did you see his piece in the YEP addressing your criticisms from last week?
[iRhinos hope to have Sinfield back in action on Thursday, but Senior is happy to continue as captain if required. "I enjoy it," he said. " =#FF0000You feel like there's a bit more pressure and you have to do that little bit more. =#FF0000It showed last Friday. I felt like I was running all over the field, at one point – I ended up defending in the right-hand centre. =#FF0000You feel like you need to put your hand up a little bit more." [/i
Quote ="G1"That's it. You quoted Steve McNamara as an authority. Need we go on?'"
Isn't Steve McNamara 'the' authority on how he wants to develope 'his' own squad? I quoted a SL coach stating his reasons behind making a signing. Reasons that on the face of it appear reasonably valid. He says he was looking for a senior player with a proven track record and that's what he got in Reardon and what he wouldn't have got had he signed a promising young player.
It'd be like a coach wanting to sign a young impact hooker and signing an ageing eighty minutre hooker instead. No coach would do that would they?
Quote ="G1"Do YOU rate the present Stuart Reardon (the one discarded by Hull and Warrington, =#FF0000the one who has barely played in three or four seasons) as a better player than Broughton? If YOU were a coach would you sign Reardon in preference? Which presents more of a gamble, the three year injured Reardon or the emerging Broughton?'"
=#FF0000www.slstats.org/p411/Stuart+Reardon.html
Now that I'm in the position of head coach I would take an overview of the way I wanted to assemble the squad. If I was looking for experience, versatility and a proven track record - (as coach McNamara stated) I suppose I would be inclined to sign such a player.
If I were in the position to make a straight choice between the two (V Donald or V Reardon) then I would have given British youth it's chance in 2010 but as I have no insight into the working of coach McNamara's or coach McClennan's minds, then just like everyone else on here, mine is a meaningless opinion.
Quote ="G1"If Reardon, with his record and history of achievements in the game, is a better signing for the Bulls than Broughton why is Donald for Leeds not a better option given what Donald has achieved in the game during the last four seasons?'"
I didn't say it was a better signing (I don't think it is) but it's the signing they chose to make in their particular circumstance. At the time of the Reardon signing wasn't Broughton seeking to follow Lee Smith down the Union road anyway? Bradford may not have been given the option of securing Broughton's services if his agent (Endacott) is busy trying to fix him up in the other code.
Quote ="leicester_rhino"As do you and most people on here. Not many people come out of a discussion saying, well that certainly changed my view on things'"
I'm not having any of that. I demand to be the only contributor on RL Fans that has an opinion.
What Do We Want?
=#FF0000An Agenda
When Do We Want It?
=#FF0000Now |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"How so?
As anyone suggested you have an agenda re Keith Senior?
Did you see his piece in the YEP addressing your criticisms from last week?
[iRhinos hope to have Sinfield back in action on Thursday, but Senior is happy to continue as captain if required. "I enjoy it," he said. "=#FF0000You feel like there's a bit more pressure and you have to do that little bit more. =#FF0000It showed last Friday. I felt like I was running all over the field, at one point – I ended up defending in the right-hand centre. =#FF0000You feel like you need to put your hand up a little bit more." [/i
Isn't Steve McNamara 'the' authority on how he wants to develope 'his' own squad? I quoted a SL coach stating his reasons behind making a signing. Reasons that on the face of it appear reasonably valid. He says he was looking for a senior player with a proven track record and that's what he got in Reardon and what he wouldn't have got had he signed a promising young player.
It'd be like a coach wanting to sign a young impact hooker and signing an ageing eighty minutre hooker instead. No coach would do that would they?
=#FF0000www.slstats.org/p411/Stuart+Reardon.html
Now that I'm in the position of head coach I would take an overview of the way I wanted to assemble the squad. If I was looking for experience, versatility and a proven track record - (as coach McNamara stated) I suppose I would be inclined to sign such a player.
If I were in the position to make a straight choice between the two (V Donald or V Reardon) then I would have given British youth it's chance in 2010 but as I have no insight into the working of coach McNamara's or coach McClennan's minds, then just like everyone else on here, mine is a meaningless opinion.
I didn't say it was a better signing (I don't think it is) but it's the signing they chose to make in their particular circumstance. At the time of the Reardon signing wasn't Broughton seeking to follow Lee Smith down the Union road anyway? Bradford may not have been given the option of securing Broughton's services if his agent (Endacott) is busy trying to fix him up in the other code.
I'm not having any of that. I demand to be the only contributor on RL Fans that has an opinion.
What Do We Want?
=#FF0000An Agenda
When Do We Want It?
=#FF0000Now'"
All you've banged on about when people have expressed an opinion that Donald is a lot better than Broughton is the "quota" whenever there's a discussion about the squad and players released it's Donald and the quota you say yourself he's an ageing aussie who re-signed late and is on the quota(That's how i read yer comments if not word perfect).
I'm perfectly happy with my opinion re-Senior no agenda straight forward opinion and happy to be proved wrong by him IF he stays another year.
Whatever is thrown your way re-the squad imo you go on about the quota and Donald.
The facts are Leeds were in a position to sign him (Broughton) if they thought he was worth it and not offer Donald a new deal they chose the latter but you still won't have it than Donald who's proven his worth since he's been here is worth keeping over a player the club have hardly broken down doors to keep.
Now if you don't think that's an agenda then that's your opinion i just get the impression that no matter what evidence or opinion is handed to you it won't change a thing because imo you want rid of Donald and you really are riled by the quota system that we HAVENT breached but you clearly think we as a club are wrong. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="rhinoms"I'm perfectly happy with my opinion re-Senior no agenda straight forward opinion'"
And my view that I would have preferred Leeds to promote one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop into the squad for 2010 in place of Donald is also straight forward opinion.
Quote ="rhinoms"The facts are Leeds were in a position to sign him.... '"
Do you agree with every call the Leeds management make? One of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop I would imagine would have been the cheaper option for the club and IMO the Academy produced players would have adequately replaced the Australian who some (not me) were moved to describe his collective performances in the first 18 games of last season as 'abysmal'. While others were saying he was looking to go home.
Quote ="rhinoms"Now if you don't think that's an agenda then that's your opinion i just get the impression that no matter what =#FF0000evidence or opinion is handed to you it won't change a thing because imo you want rid of Donald and you really are riled by the quota system that we HAVENT breached but you clearly think we as a club are wrong.'"
As someone once said, 'you turn if you like, the ladies not for tuning.'
Leeds have more 'overseas trained' in their squad than the quota was intended to allow in 2010. I think Leeds were wrong to do that. If Leeds found a way around the salary cap would you go along with that also? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 19234 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2016 | Feb 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tvoc"And my view that I would have preferred Leeds to promote one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop into the squad for 2010 in place of Donald is also straight forward opinion.
Do you agree with every call the Leeds management make? One of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop I would imagine would have been the cheaper option for the club and IMO the Academy produced players would have adequately replaced the Australian who some (not me) were moved to describe his collective performances in the first 18 games of last season as 'abysmal'. While others were saying he was looking to go home.
As someone once said, 'you turn if you like, the ladies not for tuning.'
Leeds have more 'overseas trained' in their squad than the quota was intended to allow in 2010. I think Leeds were wrong to do that. If Leeds found a way around the salary cap would you go along with that also?'"
I don't agree with every call no but i'm more than happy that they chose to retain Donald rather than throw Broughton a 1st team start which they clearly didn't think he was up to.
Whatever the quota was "intended" to be is pointless it had more holes in it than a cheap T-bag and rightly scrapped not least because of legal reasons.
If we don't "break" any rule then of course i'm happy that includes the cap.
Afterall isn't up to the CEO to best use his resources whithin the guidelines set?
Other than been australian what reasons can you think of for giving Broughton Donalds place in the team when he hasn't earned it? |
|
|
|
|
|
Can you quantify that. What higher level?'"
