This is digging up an old argument but had Marcus Bai not handed the game to Hull in the biggest F**K up since Don Fox I doubt Smiths team selection that day would ever have been spoke about.

He also didn't play Scruton, which meant we wnet into a Cup final with only 2 recognised props, with 4 available, against a big and dominating Hull pack

Surely you're not summarising Adolf Hitler as "a strict disciplinarian"?

Isn't the main reason people just "don't like" smith because he dropped our head cheerleader Matty Adamson?



I'm with Gareth on this one - why does it matter how nice a coach is as long as he's successful (for example Alex Ferguson comes across as a right grumpy get - eg won't speak to the beeb cos they once asked him a question he didn't like - but I bet there's no scum fans who'd swap him for a nice guy like Kevin Keegan)

Dropping Adamson was one his best moves and definitely contributed to the success in 2004

WTF

Smith was our most successful coach in the history of the club

What about Ant & Dec as coach, everybody loves them.

Gareth when have you ever heard a player come out on record and say a coach is rubbish - it just doesn't happen.

Only the nieve would believe that all players think the coach/manager is good - that is simply not realistic - not in rugby not in any workplace.

What happens is managers just go - there contracts are not renewed just like Smith - even you would admit his departure defies logic - if as you suggest he is a great coach with a great record why would any club get rid?

Did leeds "get rid"

I do remember Hethro coming out after the england deal was announced that he would have offered him a new contract. This could possibly have been done to save face all round though

possibly you could have a good argument, but you don't!

Without asking Hetherington a straight question (unlikely) and him giving a straight answer (even more improbable) I guess we'll never know on that one.

Your recollection is correct though as Hetherington claimed (after Smith took the England job) that while a contract was not on the table at that point both men had an understanding that it would have been when the time came for it to happen.

The McClennan appointment certainly took some time to follow so I tend to believe it wasn't something Leeds were contemplating when Smith announced he was off at the end of the season.

Whatever the players thought about Tony Smith it was 33 to 6 times more than the Saints players thought about Daniel Anderson in 2007.

i see your couldn't win in the rain and raise you a win at odsal i 98 (2nd game of the season i think) in the wind, rain, snow, sun, sleet and every other weather condition possible!

I think Senior should have taken some responsibility on that one. From what I know the medical team left it up to Senior to decide if he could play. I'd put a lot of blame on the medical team and senior for that one although Smith should have stepped in.



This is the part that galls me about that day. I felt McDermott was dropped for his poor showing the previous week against Bradford. To put it simply, yes he did have a poor game. However, while McDermott put his hand up for the ball then dropped it time and time again, he did not hide like other props that day. Those that hid were selected and McDermott was dropped.



The extra prop would have made a big difference. Ward was out on his feet when Cooke went past him.

I agree 100% KM

I work in a world were we deal with prove-able facts.

I have read direct quotes from many players who were gushing about Smith. I have also read much rumour and innuendo on Internet message boards that says the opposite.

I'll stick to the direct quotes. Yes, a player is unlikely to publicly say anything bad about his coach. Conversely, a player who hates his coach doesn't HAVE TO give gushing quotes.

Are you saying Danny McGuire is a liar and or a creep because his post grand finals comments completely contradict all the rumour posted on here?

Besides, all of this misses the point. Apart from fekkwitts who idolise show ponies who cares if the players liked him? Is a good boss someone who is liked by all or someone who gets results.

Lot's of people are talking about his decision to drop Barrie in 05. Barrie probably doesn't like him for that. Similarly Adamson won't like him for 2004 and Thackray won't like him for 2007. Guess what, those are examples of Smith making decisions he is paid to make and mostly he got them right.

Leeds didn't get rid. He took a promotion to national coach. GH said, publicly, he would've given him a new contract. These are the reported facts.

I am not disagreeing with much of what you say - whether Smith is liked or not is irrelevant as long as it doesn't effect what goes on on the pitch.

If you believe everything you read in press then you you only get the journalists interpretation of what is said - the fact that some players say certain things in the euphoria of a GF win should not be taken as a recommendation of Smith's popularity.

Peacock calls Smith a genius in his book he doesn't refer the same to the other coaches who have coached him

David,

I never believe what journalists write. Their opinion is as irrelevant to me as rumour posted on here.

I do believe quotes directly attributed to players though.

Correct me if i'm wrong G didn't the players interviewed on T.V. speak glowingly about smith as a coach???

Aye.

And, as fanstanningley said, Peacock in his autobiography.

You also missed off, subsidised. As Murray and Lance after him were both subsidised at the time. (I think something to do wtih that fall out in Aus, and paid by Newscorp or something).

The only reason Murray chose to go is because his wages would not have been subsidised further and Hetherington would not raise enough for the difference.

I actually meant "we". I was playing for Macclesfield that day in some awful Cheshire mud pit. And we did get hammered, I just got into the bar (still muddy beacaus the shower facilities were burst pipes with perforated plastic cups for shower heads) in time to watch the last 10-15 mins of the Leeds game.

Yep you're right. I should have said we couldn't beat Wigan in the wet.

Sorry about that, I've got you now.

No apology required. Most everything I write is scientific, so my sentence construction and grammar is by definition appaling.