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| We've played our get out of jail free cards and hopefully the "blip" will be overcome depending on fitness i'd go with..
Hardaker
Hall
Moon
Watkins
Briscoe
Mcguire
Lilley
Garbutt
Sinfield
Jp
Ablett
S.Ward
Cuthbertson
Delaney
Burrow
Singleton
Leuleui.
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| If Burrow is fit then I'd just revert to the old style of Burrow at 9. Yes it has its flaws but we've also won trophies with him starting there so better than messing about hoping something else will work.
If he isn't fit then my left field suggestion is Moon at hooker with someone filling in at left centre, Ablett, Keinhorst (if his eye turns out ok) or Handley/Briscoe.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"If Burrow is fit then I'd just revert to the old style of Burrow at 9. Yes it has its flaws but we've also won trophies with him starting there so better than messing about hoping something else will work.'"
Gets my vote. I don't see how we can do anything other than look for some serious performances in all four - hopefully - remaining games. This would apply just as much even if the LLS wasn't at stake. That's assuming Burrow's recovered sufficiently, of course. If he hasn't, we should save him for the semi/GF rather than gamble on him in the hope of a LLS.
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| If Watkins, Keinhorst and Burrow are missing I would go for the following:
Hardaker
Handley
Briscoe
Moon
Hall
Sinfield
McGuire
Cuthbertson
R. Ward
Peacock
Ablett
Ward
Delaney
Subs
Kylie
Garbutt
Singleton
Lilley
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| Quote ="chapylad"If Watkins, Keinhorst and Burrow are missing I would go for the following:
Hardaker
Handley
Briscoe
Moon
Hall
Sinfield
McGuire
Cuthbertson
R. Ward
Peacock
Ablett
Ward
Delaney
Subs
Kylie
Garbutt
Singleton
Lilley'"
I agree with this, but would start Singleton instead of Cuthbertson.
However, I think Watkins will be fit and will play, which means Handley dropping out.
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| I think we've got to go as strong as possible, we've got to try and get a bit of fluidity back into our attack and that means playing the players we'll play in the semi and hopefully the final.
So:
1. Hardaker
2. Briscoe
3. Watkins
4. Moon
5. Hall
6. Sinfield
7. McGuire
8. Garbutt
9. Lilley
10. Peacock
11. Ablett
12. Delaney
13. Cuthbertson
14. Burrow
15. Leuluai
16. Ward
17. Singleton
I'd start with Lilley at 9, if he looks like he's struggling we can bring Burrow off the bench. But I still think Burrow is most effective when coming off the bench rather than starting.
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| If Burrow plays this week, then it is out of panic and rushing him. His wife was clear the other week when she said he would not be able to play until the Huddersfield game earliest. She was clear it was a grade 2 tear, and if you do look that up, the time frame would suggest what she said.
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| Quote ="Him"I think we've got to go as strong as possible, we've got to try and get a bit of fluidity back into our attack and that means playing the players we'll play in the semi and hopefully the final.
So:
1. Hardaker
2. Briscoe
3. Watkins
4. Moon
5. Hall
6. Sinfield
7. McGuire
8. Garbutt
9. Lilley
10. Peacock
11. Ablett
12. Delaney
13. Cuthbertson
14. Burrow
15. Leuluai
16. Ward
17. Singleton
I'd start with Lilley at 9, if he looks like he's struggling we can bring Burrow off the bench. But I still think Burrow is most effective when coming off the bench rather than starting.'"
On reflection I'd agree with this: I said at the time Lilley didn't look too bad at dummy half; he certainly sped up the ruck compared to Sinfield. R.Ward is obviously not in consideration and giving Lilley another run is going to be less disruptive than my other suggestion of moving Moon to SO and keeping Sinfield at dummy half.... S.Ward to start though with Delaney on the bench.
It seems a shame we cannot somehow utilise Handley during this mounting injuries issue.....and for sure IF Watkins doesn't make this one then I would def bring Handley into the threequarters rather than Ablett....who has to stay in the forwards !!
If it's too soon for Burrow then maybe R.Ward should be given another chance to stake his claim from the bench??
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| Hardaker
Briscoe Watkins Moon Hall
Sinfield McGuire
Garbutt R Ward Peacock
Ablett S Ward
Cuthbertson
Lilley Delaney Singleton Leuluai
Or
Hardaker
Handley Briscoe Moon Hall
Sinfield McGuire
Garbutt R Ward Peacock
Ablett S Ward
Cuthbertson
Lilley Delaney Singleton Leuluai.
I am lead to believe that Burrow won't be back until next week. Sinfield needs to be in his six position and we need a proper nine too.
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| I am totally at a loss to see what Robbie Ward or Lilley has done at this level to suggest they have what it takes to deliver a performance required to win a LLS or GF.
Mac is totally correct to go with players who have proven they can lift to the intensity required. Injuries aside Lilley, Ward and Walters should be running the kicking tee at best as this point.
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| Quote ="sgtwilko"I am totally at a loss to see what Robbie Ward or Lilley has done at this level to suggest they have what it takes to deliver a performance required to win a LLS or GF.
Mac is totally correct to go with players who have proven they can lift to the intensity required. Injuries aside Lilley, Ward and Walters should be running the kicking tee at best as this point.'"
Quite.
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| Hardaker
Briscoe
Watkins
Moon
Hall
Sinfield
McGuire
Garbutt
Lilley
Peacock
S Ward
Ablett
Cuthbertson
Leuluai
Singleton
Delaney
Burrow/ Walters .
We need Sinfield back at 6 for his game management. He can still help out at hooker ,same for Burrow.
I think Lilley did enough to keep his spot at hooker and we have no one else without moving people out of position . He added speed to the ruck and didn't let anyone down.
Really need the backs to get stuck in for attack and make good decisions in defence .
Sinfield controlling things at 6 should mean we have a kicking game on the 5th.
Must win game IMO, could do with saints beating Wigan too
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| Quote ="sgtwilko"I am totally at a loss to see what Robbie Ward or Lilley has done at this level to suggest they have what it takes to deliver a performance required to win a LLS or GF.
Mac is totally correct to go with players who have proven they can lift to the intensity required. Injuries aside Lilley, Ward and Walters should be running the kicking tee at best as this point.'"
Didn't rookie Ryan Hall get his first GF winner's medal after coming in for Lee Smith to cover Webb's back injury? Or would it have been better to have played JJB there?
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| Quote ="nantwichexile"Didn't rookie Ryan Hall get his first GF winner's medal after coming in for Lee Smith to cover Webb's back injury? Or would it have been better to have played JJB there?'"
Ah the Wisdom of hindsight!
Totally not the same, Sinfield has played Hooker for England and arguably played his best.
I don't recall JJB being a winger.
Playing at 9 right in the middle is totally different from playing on the fringe.
I'm gonna stick my head on the bloke and say Ward will not be arguable the best hooker of his generation or Lilley the best half. If it happens you can pan me for the next 10 years.
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| Burrow needs to play if fit. Either he goes to 7 and Sinny at 9 or vice versa. You can get away with not playing a 6 against Hull KR, but Saints and Catalans worked us out. If Watkins is out then Briscoe needs to play centre with Handley outside him. Ablett, Ward and Delaney is the best back row we have. Keep them in the back row!
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| Quote ="nantwichexile"Didn't rookie Ryan Hall get his first GF winner's medal after coming in for Lee Smith to cover Webb's back injury? Or would it have been better to have played JJB there?'"
Yes but as has been pointed out its about the defending in the middle. McDermott put Handley in and put the likes of Duckworth and Minns in other times. He's been more than happy to play Stevie Ward at 2nd row when he's been fit over the year even when he looked to small to do the role asked of him and has played the likes of Keinhorst and Walters at 2nd.
However you think of Singleton having to bide his time for a few years, Mulhern now. McShane, Hood and Robbie Ward at hooker. It's surely the issue of whether they can hold their own physically in the middle when defending.
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| Quote ="sgtwilko"I am totally at a loss to see what Robbie Ward or Lilley has done at this level to suggest they have what it takes to deliver a performance required to win a LLS or GF.
Mac is totally correct to go with players who have proven they can lift to the intensity required. Injuries aside Lilley, Ward and Walters should be running the kicking tee at best as this point.'"
Just wondering what your 17 would be if Burrow, Watkins, Aiton, Sutcliffe, JJB, Keinhorst are all injured.
I agree that those payers are not ideal to be in the squad at this time of year, but I think we're a bit stuck on selection. I think Sinfield at hooker with one half back is way less affective than squad member at hooker with Sinfield and McGuire in the halves.
I know you said injuries aside but I'd just be interested to know what you'd play with the squad we have available
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Yes but as has been pointed out its about the defending in the middle. McDermott put Handley in and put the likes of Duckworth and Minns in other times. He's been more than happy to play Stevie Ward at 2nd row when he's been fit over the year even when he looked to small to do the role asked of him and has played the likes of Keinhorst and Walters at 2nd.
However you think of Singleton having to bide his time for a few years, Mulhern now. McShane, Hood and Robbie Ward at hooker. It's surely the issue of whether they can hold their own physically in the middle when defending.'"
I would say these days Sinfield struggles in the middle - Saints exposed him twice in one move. Didn't he ask to be moved into the halves because he didn't want the tackling work of a forward? Hooker is the most demanding physical role in the team so why everyone is suddenly saying he is as good as a specialist hooker is beyond me.
The less said about his ponderous distribution the better. Stevie Wonder can see playing Sinfield at hooker is not working now the intensity has ramped up a bit. He is a quality half back/organiser the most important player in the team in that role moving him to hooker causes too much disruption. Just because McDermott picks him there doesn't make it right - everyone makes mistakes including the coach.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"I would say these days Sinfield struggles in the middle - Saints exposed him twice in one move. Didn't he ask to be moved into the halves because he didn't want the tackling work of a forward? Hooker is the most demanding physical role in the team so why everyone is suddenly saying he is as good as a specialist hooker is beyond me.
The less said about his ponderous distribution the better. Stevie Wonder can see playing Sinfield at hooker is not working now the intensity has ramped up a bit. He is a quality half back/organiser the most important player in the team in that role moving him to hooker causes too much disruption. Just because McDermott picks him there doesn't make it right - everyone makes mistakes including the coach.'"
Sinfield isn't defending at hooker though. Cuthbertson is. Might add that Sinfield was arguably our best player in the wind vs Wigan and Hull. Like I said before, it he played there and we had two halves , say McGuire and Sutcliffe it would be fine. If Aiton was playing with only McGuire in the halves I doubt it'd great as well.
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| Quote ="Joshheff90"Just wondering what your 17 would be if Burrow, Watkins, Aiton, Sutcliffe, JJB, Keinhorst are all injured.
I agree that those payers are not ideal to be in the squad at this time of year, but I think we're a bit stuck on selection. I think Sinfield at hooker with one half back is way less affective than squad member at hooker with Sinfield and McGuire in the halves.
I know you said injuries aside but I'd just be interested to know what you'd play with the squad we have available'"
I'm not into naming fantasy 17's. Is it confirmed Watkins, Burrow and Keinhorst are injured?
I recon you pick your best 17 players. Injury will always play a part at this time of the year.
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| Quote ="sgtwilko"I am totally at a loss to see what Robbie Ward or Lilley has done at this level to suggest they have what it takes to deliver a performance required to win a LLS or GF.'"
With all due respect, and I mean that because you are entitled to voice an opinion, but you are in Australia are you not? so unless you have been popping over for weekends, I think I am correct to assume you have seen neither player in the Championship? you have seen neither player in the Under 19's? and all you have seen is where our matches are shown live, which probably would not have included the Hull game?
So don't you think, and I did say no disrespect intended, you are near the bottom of the list for judging the two players in question at this stage? I am not saying you are wrong by the way, just that I fail to see how you can confidently make that statement.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Sinfield isn't defending at hooker though. Cuthbertson is. Might add that Sinfield was arguably our best player in the wind vs Wigan and Hull. Like I said before, it he played there and we had two halves , say McGuire and Sutcliffe it would be fine. If Aiton was playing with only McGuire in the halves I doubt it'd great as well.'"
Sinfield is still defending in the forwards and has looked less than solid as Saints and Sigismeau showed.
Playing Sinfield at 9 is a mistake - he is far too slow, ponderous and predictable. He doesn't present an attacking threat in that position. If Aiton was playing and McGuire it would be better - not ideal - because both players are in their natural positions and obviously Aiton is step above Sinfield in that position.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"With all due respect, and I mean that because you are entitled to voice an opinion, but you are in Australia are you not? so unless you have been popping over for weekends, I think I am correct to assume you have seen neither player in the Championship? you have seen neither player in the Under 19's? and all you have seen is where our matches are shown live, which probably would not have included the Hull game?
So don't you think, and I did say no disrespect intended, you are near the bottom of the list for judging the two players in question at this stage? I am not saying you are wrong by the way, just that I fail to see how you can confidently make that statement.'"
Saw the Hull game. Seen Lilley and Ward in the first team. That's what I'm basing my opinion on. I would think the 19's and Hunslet would not tell you much about how they will go in the play offs. You can rank my opinion how you like.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Sinfield is still defending in the forwards and has looked less than solid as Saints and Sigismeau showed.
Playing Sinfield at 9 is a mistake - he is far too slow, ponderous and predictable. He doesn't present an attacking threat in that position. If Aiton was playing and McGuire it would be better - not ideal - because both players are in their natural positions and obviously Aiton is step above Sinfield in that position.'"
Sinfield is defending where he normally defends, around 3 man in from the right. Digits mean showed Singield a clean pair of heels, hardly the most shocking or breaking news to realise Sinfield isn't the fastest.
And whilst yes he has looked less solid in defence the last two weeks I say the same could be said for the team in general. Aiton and McGuire with no other HB might be "better" but it would exactly be ideal either or successful.
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| There is a lot of 2+2 making 5 comments going about.
Talk of a playing "a proper hooker" as though this magically will solve our injury crisis is all based on the assumption that this "proper hooker" will be better than Sinfield.
To be called a "proper hooker" it would seem folk rate a big tackling performance when surely the distribution passes and runs from acting half back are the most important aspects. The tackling duties can be shared out between the other forwards. It is this expectation of a hooker having to make a high number of tackles in addition to arriving first at every one of the attacking play the balls that leads to a bench position being reserved for a replacement because very few hookers can physically keep it up for 80 minutes.
So IMO the choice of the hooker should be based on their distribution and attacking runs from dummy half and not their tackling ability. This is why the role is now more akin and suits the skills of a half back
I have not seen a lot of Robbie Ward but the coaches have and I would go with their judgement on when he is ready for SL. Because he comes under the heading "proper hooker" does not make him a good "proper hooker" by definition alone.
Some posters are assuming that had Aiton not been injured all would be well. Again this view takes no account of the other injuries we have incurred, plus Wembley hang over and drop in form of several players. IMO it is the injuries to Aiton, Burrow and Watkins combined that have dulled our attack. When the latter two return our attack should improve dramatically. Burrow can interchange with Sinfield to give us more direction and more space for McGuire.
I agree with sgtwilko we have to select our best and most reliable players if fit.
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