I think this will be pretty close at their place and despite the fact we may have Watkins availabel i would give him till next week i'd go with...

Hardaker
Bish
Keinhorst
Moon
Hall
Sutcliffe
Burrow
JP
Mcshane
Moore
Ablett
Achurch
Clarkson

Singleton
Kirke
Baldwinson
Tonks/Foster

Why would you not play Watkins

that pitch!

Shouldn't Delaney be back round about now?

Tad makes a good point about the pitch but for me he's way ahead of schedule only rated as a "decent chance to return" so id like to see him get another full week of full contact training so he's rated as a better chance for Wire and imo keinhorst has done ok.
I also think there's no need to risk him against Widnes when it could backfire and lose him for the rest of the year and looking how our injury is going there's every chance that could happen.

Agree with this.Im not sure Keinhorst has a long term future at the club but he is certainly not the liability Vickery is and capable of filling in against teams in the bottom half of the league. the team selection for this game could give a bit away in how much Mcdermott rates him.He could give Watkins another week to rest but whats to say he wont play Ablett and Moon at centre? that would be a bit of a body blow for him with us being thin in the pack as it is.

If Watkins is fully fit then he should be included IMO. It is important that he is also match fit for the Warrington game so a run out against Widnes would be ideal. If he is fully fit the chances of another injury would be the same for both games and if that indeed were to happen, better a man down against Widnes than Warrington.

Agree with this.....way ahead is way way ahead of schedule, but Keinhorst have done well, attacking well last week v Hudds, defence better also with Sutcliffe's improvement inside him....steady away, Ablett allows some potential shift during the game, but would give Watkins another week if it were me

expect him to stay at prop then

My only reservation about Watkins coming back (if passed fit, which is a process usually carried out by medical and physio staff based on clinical examination rather than by us based on news reports) is that pitch.

I'm not aware of much evidence either way on whether the risk of injury is greater, or even less, on those pitches. That lack of evidence brings risk with it. Although I guess injuries are either healed or they're not. So my unease mat be baseless.

I think Widnes have learned to make the most of their slightly unusual pitch this year, and they're often a much touher proposition on their own ground than they are on their travels.

Can you fill in a gap for me?
Which property of the artificial pitch do you think could be worse for Watkins than other players?

Hope to see a few from Leeds travelling to Widnes as i feel will be another close game.Always enjoy the banter with the Yorkshire people.



Even though we lose alot to Leeds.

Probably none, I'm not really sure how rational such concerns would be. But I always found playing on artificial pitches tougher on the ankles (somewhere halfway between grass and the sprain-a-thon sports hall floor). I also find that once healed, ankle ligaments are also slightly stiff for a while, especially when you first get back into playing (there's no substitute for that in my experience, so another week probably makes no odds really).

In the end far better qualified people than me will make that call. My doubt stems from the fact that when you send a recently healed ankle out onto a grass surface you have a wealth of experience and even some trial data to base your risk assessment on. Much as an athletics coach will draw on lots of information about the same injury on track and road (you'll get much more pain on a track, but probably less risk of real damage). The knowledge on how they react on a 3G pitch is much less. It's more absence of the ability to make your risk assessment properly than any specific property being a concern.

Like I say, I'll trust the judgement of the medical staff. That's what they're trained and paid for.

I guess he will have done some work on the 3G pitch at Kirkstall this week, and they may make a judgment based on how he responds to that.

My thoughts too

Shaun Wane's rested a number of his players at Widnes for their last couple of games there and I'm sure I read that this had been precautionary. Whether or not this had any rational basis I'm not sure. Much as I'm impressed by Wane's coaching prowess, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he routinely keeps sprigs of lucky white heather down his pants and such like.

Fair point. Forgot they had a 3G pitch down there to be honest.

It's lavender and its just for odour control so he doesn't have to wash them as often.

On the Keinhorst front, I'm not sure he's as limited as some people are suggesting. He's obviously still a work in progress, but there are just enough flashes of real class in some of his offloads and angles of running to suggest that there could be a really good player in there somewhere.

I've heard him called a "pet project" a few times, but I think he might be a project worth persevering with.

Looking at some of the Leeds training photos posted on twitter/instragram I think Watkins will be taking his place back off Keinhorst on Sunday.

If Watkins is fit, why wouldn't you play him?

The alternative is that his first game back is away from home against a Warrington left side of Waterhouse, Myler and Atkins. Hard enough at any time, never mind as a comeback after a few weeks out.

Don't disagree with playing him if fit, it's an obvious decision really - just stating a point

The 19 man squad in full is:
1. Zak Hardaker
2. Ben Jones-Bishop
3. Kallum Watkins
4. Joel Moon
5. Ryan Hall
7. Rob Burrow
9. Paul McShane
10. Jamie Peacock (c)
12. Carl Ablett
17. Ian Kirke
18. Chris Clarkson
19. Mitch Achurch
21. Richard Moore
22. Jimmy Keinhorst
23. Brad Singleton
26. Liam Sutcliffe
27. Thomas Minns
28. Jordan Baldwinson
30. Alex Foster

If Watkins is fully fit then Minns and Keinhorst drop out imo.

Considering you've been bemoaning your recent injury list I say you worry more about grass pitches



Still a decent 19 that but if we want to have a strong finish to the year Widnes have to win when opposition weakened really. Looking forward to it!