Hull tonight has two young 18 year old kids in first time action who looked more than capable....Crooks and the FB borrowed from Wigan.

Why do we hesitate so much in giving our good young 'uns a regular place....? I'm talking Hood, Singleton (both older ?), D.Smith, Chisholm and Ward at least....How old [iare [/iall of our 'kids' here mentioned ? Twenty is too old ....get any of them that are at that age in NOW

ward looks very promising, saw him against our (fc) under 20s today and ran rings round the whole team, albeit it wasn't the strongest u20 line up we had out

AS much as I disagree with your obsession with yout nantwich, it gets harder to see what Kirke offers over the likes of Singo or even the use of ward on the bench with Bailey at loose.

That said I expect a few to play next week.

Also Jimmy Keinhorst was 18th man to day, whats the story with that why not mcshane, or Ward?

I was thinking during the game that a bit of youthful enthusiasm would have been handy, that should have been Stevie Ward.

Thought we were crying out for Burrow off the bench to just give us some momentum going forward and get their pack on the back foot.

I said on the walk to the ground that we would win purely because burrow was injured. You had no real 'impact' coming off the bench, players were much the same style as who started.

As for Phil Clarke moaning about us 'borrowing' Russell, failed to mention you borrowing
Lunt

Think there is a bit of difference between Lunt and Russell

Yeah ones an up and coming star of the future who Wigan think highly of, the other is a cast off

Phil Clarke is rapidly becoming tedious and ignorant just like wiggy.

He was bemoaning the fact that Wigan played a young Cook islander (Gelling) in place of a young Wiganer (Russell) on Friday nights games against KR.

The fact that Russell was already gaining first team exposure with FC to the benefit of Wigan, Hull and the player did not even get on his radar. The fact that at the time Gelling was having a pretty good game made it even more curious.

To add more insult to injury we fielded Lockers, Mossop, Mclorum, Hansen, Tomkins, Tuson, Charnley, Hughes, Hock, Goulding and Farrell. All of whom are ex Wigan academy players (not sure on Mclorum mind you). With 7 of them being born and bread Wiganer's.The whole commentary setup at Sky has nothing to do with providing good honest analysis, comment and commentary.

There are fans of many clubs who hate Clarke because of his perceived pro-Wigan agenda. I can tell you that there are plenty of Pie Eaters who cant stand the mouthpiece either.

Does nobody else think that Griffin, despite a highly promising start to his Leeds career, has failed to impress ?

For me we could already be using:

Singleton as a regular over Lleulai ( The latter still has much to offer, but is retiring ...so why not use him as the injury cover only instead of keeping Singleton on the sidelines ? )

Ward over Kirke ( somebody please tell me why not ???? )

Daniel Smith over Griffin ( for the reason offered above. Griffin can still regain his spot with improvement )

Hood over Lee Smith ( bit more tricky this one as Smith seems to be recovering a bit of form. However, when Burrow regains his obvious best position - bench replacement - both Hood and Smith might be pushed out anyways. )

Chisholm over Webb ( [iHardaker to FB, Hall to centre[/i. Webb is becoming far too petulant and is leaving at the end of this season. We need to adopt and perfect new plays without him: can we not start now ?? As with Lleulai just use Webb as the injury cover ).

Why would you have relatively highly paid players sat in the stands? Not getting much value for money out of them!

Swap their wages



Seriously I don't care....if the "highly paid players" are playing crap, or are becoming an ever increasing liability, or are looking less likely to produce the enthusiastic goods of the young keen lads.......then yes 'stick them in the stands'. It might encourage more effort or a more postive team enhancing swan song.

Yes looks to have the Kirke syndrome, does as little as possible.
Little if any impact going forward and not the best defender in the world.
However their forwards walked all over us last night and did we ever stop Manu making at least 20 metres the majority of the time.
Are pack is aging and it is certainly showing this season.

Peacock [idid[/i play well, but I do think the good performances will become progressively fewer .....as with all of our 30 plus forwards. I know I am perhaps obsessed

with bringing in the kids, but I cannot understand the logic in only introducing them when the 'first teamers' are unavailable (through injury or suspension) in a then less controllable selection scenario.

I'm glad somebody else agrees that Griffin is [unot[/u presently justifying his selection ....an ideal opportunity to give Singleton an extended run surely ?? As already stated Ward should now be the regular IMO instead of the incumbent much less talented Kirke.

Why do people want to put hall to centre

Perhaps the answer is - to see him receive a pass.

I already posted yesterday on another thread that IMO Griffin is lacking his early impact.

I am all for giving the youngsters a chance but had we done that against the in form Hull of the other night I fear we would have lost by many more points and it could have dented their confidence. Better to blood them in an easier fixture and when they come on when the side is in better form.

IMO JP is improving his form as the season progresses and is now our best performing prop.

Kirke and Ward fulfill different roles in the side and and are not really interchangeable. Kirke is being used as a reliable (if not high impact

) interchange and to be fair has been playing well in recent games and did some valuable tackling against Hull. Ward is a talented pivotal 13 who can play in the halves and should not be used as cannon fodder as his time will come.

Most coaches will play their best/most experienced players as first choices unless they are unfit or really badly out of form. Since injuries to key players distrupted our form we have been inconsistent but the players know what needs fixing and they have the experience to do just that. With several players set to become available again with a bit of luck we can regain the all inportant momentum and have the chance to climb the tables over the next month to put us in a better position for the run in.

In all seriousness I thought we would have seen some improvement in the supply of the winger but it doesn't seem to be getting better. Still hopeful it will improve but I prefer Nantwich idea of moving him to FB as aPpose to stand off!

I seem to remember reading in YEP that hall has set up more trys for hardaker than visa versa

Whichever way one looks at it this dearth of possession for one of our most potent attacking weapons is a tragedy/travesty.
If moving him to centre is too radical for some including the coach it would appear....then why NOT switch him to the right wing where his service from Watkins/Ablett would improve tenfold.

I like Hardaker, but he aint learning how to make that pass......until he does Hall should be moved.

BUT that's my point.....the club does NOT do this. We only see them introduced when the side is lacking the usual suspects. Ward at scrum half (not his best position) is just the most recent example.

My first team choice would indeed be:

Hardaker
BJB
Watkins
Hall
Chisholm
Ward
McGuire

Singleton
Lunt
Peacock/Griffin/Lleulai/Moore/any other old has been
JJB
Bailey
Sinfield

Burrow
Hood/Webb
Delaney/Ablett/Hauraki/L.Smith/Clarkson/any other reasonable but not aussie national team quality player
D.Smith

You are spot on Juan.

Griffin for a number of weeks has been going through the motions. He has always been questionable in defence tracking back and his tackling technique when looked at closely is hardly textbook. But he made up for these short-comings with a good bit of direction and size with his carries. But he's hardly winning any collisions, going down way too easy, and you really have to go out of your way to notice him. He needs to step-up. I remember when he made his debut for Leeds, he just played one brief stint with Mac remarking that he had to earn his game time. In that case, more work requied Griff.

A bloke I know who follows the Giants said that Griff was more or less in the Top 2 prop performers for them week-in week-out. Maybe his move to a bigger club, where he isn't needed as much, as seen him fade into the background. Either way Kirkes out-playing him at present.

Out of interest, have you EVER seen Chisholm, Singleton or Daniel Smith (or Aston Wilson) play?

Phil Clarke is rapidly becoming tedious and ignorant just like wiggy.

He was bemoaning the fact that Wigan played a young Cook islander (Gelling) in place of a young Wiganer (Russell) on Friday nights games against KR.

I think the main reason that he rattled on about RUSSELL & KING is the fact that they are both represented by Andy CLARKE (sports agent) maybe he is spotlighting them FOR HIS BROTHER !!