I'd argue differently on that one Howard , while the core product might always be considered inferior to SL , by careful ' packaging ' and targeting of your potential customers , I think you could grow a larger fan base , and a loyal one at that

Plus of course you know my opinion on other revenue streams not currently being properly exploited

Dont get your knickers in a twist, Obvously you dont get a joke when it smacks you in the face, if you thought the first line in my reply was for real then a reality check is in order my dear. By the way, i hear what your saying but wasn't really listening

Ahh, a joke is only a joke when when "you" do'nt know what your talking about. LOL.

So becuase i made a joke and you dont like it you end up with Knickers in a Knot.





I cant be a real fan or anything becuase i didn't know the under 23's cost £40k, WOW !!! I must send a email to the club telling them that when i renew my ST i want a full run down of the costs for the under 23s and what exactly it costs us to field our first team this year....

Unbelievable Geoff !!!!

The cost is actually about £35k if you want to be pedantic!! And I have seen the breakdown of the costs!!

I agree with you on this Howard, most people like me will pay the going rate for a season ticket as long as it is not excessive, yer we like a good offer but prefer something like get a Diners package like last year that was a good one.
The clubs hardcore support will pay anyway on the whole, the feel good factor with a winning team brings in more and enthuses more to renew true.
Success will come from a money man, look at FC Halifax Town they are being bankrolled and look what it is doing for them!
Some refuse to accept this but it is a fact in sport, in RL probably only Leeds would be sustainable without a sugar Daddy.

But how do Fax get new season ticket holders???

In Previous Years London Skolars have offered a "Six Pack" Ticket, pay upfront for 6 games, and make a small saving, then use at any 6 games, still cheaper to buy a season ticket if you make every game, but generates some funds up front.

Would make a good Xmas present to someone who has an interest and makes the odd game now and then, and these people may then the year later buy a season ticket,

So how do you attract a ' money man ' ? , get more fans , sponsors and ' investors ' want to see commitment from the locality , it tends to work that way

I have suggested something similar today on the Leigh board , but our problem is having an all ticket stadium , you don't , so not as much of an attraction or neccessesity

Maybe but not always take Fev or locally here FC Halifax Town for example or look at teams like QPR or Reading in football, hardly well supported yet they got money men onboard somehow, usually local people who have a passion for their hometown club.

I can only see a scheme like Bradford's working in the short term. Ask for 3,000 and if reached, give the discount price band.

HOWEVER - Problem is you permanently mark down your product UNLESS something dramatically alters whereby supporters willingly pay at the original price bracket. eg, £60 for a Championship ticket. Three years later, the club gets promoted to SL - back to £120+

I would suggest that Bradford and Huddersfield are playing an extremely suicidal game with their offers. If Bradford continue to be gash, even the bargain hunters will desert them. Then they'll have 7,000 crowds but only paying £60. Disaster. Getting back to the top of SL would give them more leverage to hike prices but is that likely to happen? Same for Huddersfield. When the Lord takes good Mr Davey what will become of the club's ability to offer massively discounted prices? They'll have to hike them back up in order to plug the gap left by Davey. So, the average Huddersfield fan, having got used to paying ballack all to watch a match will now be asked to stump up three times the price. Netto shoppers will only pay Netto prices.

But usually not rich enough , or clever enough to take the club up to a higher level permanently , usually just a few years , 4/5 usually

But sorry to say I cannot see any club below SL ever getting a very rich man onboard, why would they bother its RL and lower league RL, lets face facts its not football where they can really massage their huge ego.
There is only a few at clubs like Widnes (how much is Steve O'Connor worth?) and Huddersfield (Ken Davy), others have money men but not sure how wealthy they are (Warrington, Salford and Hull KR and I am sure others too).

The daft thing is we run on mostly our own finances (a good lottery well done Mick and Richard) yet this was not good enough for SL, but is surely a better model than relying on a money man in the longer term???
Ask Crusaders Fat Controller Nigel if you don't believe me, their money man went walkies once he saw it would not work in South Wales. So did Richard Branson at London Broncos, now he knows whats best doesn't he!!!
But RL is now tied to money men forever sadly.

So as We see , even a succsessful team and cheap tickets isn't working at the Giants , so why not ?

My take on it is they don't provide the whole package , as even with 10,000 in that big stadium , the place is flat , it is a souless bowl of a ground , no standing , no singing , the roof let's all the atmosphere out of it

Compare that to a 4/5,000 crowd at the Shay ?

No comparison , just get them in , make it fun , eventually they will come back , set the target high ,

Do you know what, sometimes reading these threads can be really frustrating, commenting on them starts to feel pointless when you get tunnel visioned, 'my view is right' opinions from people who just don't want debate or suggestion.

I comment on here rarely, having been registered since 2008 under this name and a year before that under another. I post here because its my club, my life when not at work, and dont fully appreciate being called daft for suggestions.

The really 'daft' thing is by posting my initial suggestion, I even knew I would get shot at from some sectors because my idea was different to giving free tickets to schools or selling a ST for 50 quid which is poor business management without a large pot of money to soak up the impact.

As it happens FaxHali, my suggestion was surprisingly in line with most of the other posters including Howard who to be fair knows his onions. The debate was how to market Fax next year, and/or increase crowds. Now then, if you take time to read my post I actually say don't discount season tickets, it isn't commercially viable. All I suggested was targetting real RL fans from clubs who may fancy a day out when their club isn't playing.

I apologise if this offends you, as it appears to have done with Brew too, the thought of having other fans in our ground is clearly alien, I struggle to see the problem. Let me point something out, as stated by lots of posts, we cannot compete with SL clubs on season tickets (or other things for that matter) because the last couple of weeks should show you that the playing field isn't level. Therefore by doing exactly what was suggested by I believe Brew, with reference to London Skolars and season tickets that give you a selection of games for a set price, it might just help build the crowds.

On reflection, I didn't clearly state the number of games a ticket would entitle you to, reading that you believe a Fax fan would, instead of paying say 100-110 quid to our club, travel to a SL club, pay 50-80 quid to them then get a ticket for fax for 30 quid tells me your presumption is the 30 quid ticket is for ALL matches. My fault, even though I did say the SL fans wouldn't be able to attend all the time, maybe a couple of times a year. Why a real fan would do this is beyond me anyway but hey ho.... We could give them 4 or 5 games in a season, I drive past Odsal to get to the Shay, I can only remember two occasions this season when the Bulls were at home when we were. Warrington being one.

We then have the potential of all other West Yorks SL clubs to tap into, both Hull clubs too. We play the best rugby (probably in either divison with the exception of Wire), are pretty successful, our ground is good and have no real competion from other championship clubs to not attract the real fans when at a loose end. How many Cas fans will get up on a sunday when there team are away in France that weekend and think, oh I'll nip down Post Office Road! just look past the emotion of things and think differently. As Howard says, attendances are down over the years, therefore maybe someone needs to address the situation differently without the usual cobblers of freebie tickets to schools and Frankie walking round Asda handing out tickets to the next match.

Oh and one final 'daft' point. I will stop suggesting things I clearly have no knowledge of. I work in an environment where I am solely reponsible and accountable for running a business that turns over 30 million a year in sales, have 119 staff members, 6 supervisors and 4 managers that answer directly to me. Our sector is bucking the trend of the economic climate and one of my KRA's that I am judged on is delivering comp percentage growth in footfall when in competition with rival businesses. Sorry all, rant over, by the way, the suggestion started from a Rhinos fan i work with. He would definatley buy a ticket for 20 or 30 quid and attend when we played Leigh, Fev, Barra, as would a Cas fan too. Daftness over.

A post right from the heart there FF , and your frustration is evident in it , just as we are all feeling frustration at recent events

And in the short term your suggestion probably would work , and would provide a boost to the attendances at the shay , but ultimatly it is income that is needed , long term continuous , reliable sustainable income , and that will only come from more Halifax fans , its like the long held and often posted suggestion that Quins should chase the backpacking Aussies in London , because when the national team has played in the capital a few thousand of them turned up fo9r a game against the Kiwi's

But that doesn't work , never will , they will turn up for the odd game , but will never actually finance the club

The answer ? , well it is down to hard work , new idea's and some small amount of money to action them , also not forgetting a huge ' leap of faith ' , becaus old idea's just dont work , that we do know

FF I like and understand that idea, it seems a great way to attract extra support from nearby Rugby League fans. And I agree, as a neutral RL supporter really (although I have a major lean towards Fax atm) that Fax certainly play very entertaining RL week in week out so Im sure that many fans of other clubs, given the chance, would attend! But is this not also a time to reward the loyal Fax fans, that have stuck with it through thick and thin, and that may now be very downbeat about the thought of another 3 years (at least) stuck in the Championship. Sort of like a two pronged attack. Offers for season ticket holders of other clubs (so that would attract SL supporters when their teams aren't playing, and also away support - im not a numbers guy but something that would give a discounted price for other Champ teams season ticket holders for away games at the Shay, I appreciate that a commission may have to be taken by the other club...) and also offers for your own supporters if you can reach a targeted amount of sales to make sure a good profit is made.

I just think Fax need to be brave next season, and do as much as possible to promote themselves. Another GF this year would help with that too

I'm off mi soap box now...

Just wanted to finish by saying I always enjoy reading your posts Starbug. You always seem to grasp the importance of solid foundations, growth and management.

I fully agree with your theory on short termism too. I don't claim to have the answers to how rl as a whole, and clubs separately should grow or operate, I just relate to the need of every business to strengthen both at the grass-roots and take advantage through incremental cash flow.

My suggestion is based largely around the second route. It will never build solid regular income, more impulsive and spontaneous. A little like getting to a final and producing the right merchandise. Fax have learnt well from the last couple of years and benefited from it.

You are a hundred percent right tho, I liken the suggestion of driving incremental business to that of making a cake. You ain't sticking a cherry on a lump of batter mix. You need the cake there too.

Understand your target audience and work on them. Both regular consumer and impulse buyer. They are both important to growth in a business.

Agreed Rich
People have got to remember Bradford and Huddersfield are doing this for different reasons, The Bulls wanted a cash injection and the Giants are being bankrolled by Ken Davey, hes trying to get crowds up at his own cost. Its fair to say a lot of the people that bought tickets don't attend week in week out either.
Last thing we want is to see crowds up but the club skint come mid season.
Tony Abbot would be best served finding offers that translate better to a club that wants new supporters but needs to keep a steady income stream going. I dont know the answer, if my numbers come in tonight i'd go Daveys route for a season and see who we can hold onto, Fax can't do that though. Its good that people are discussing it though, someone may stumble onto something that works for us, I applaud the ideas.
Each game taken on its merits and offers accordingly is the only way i see we can boost the average attendance without taking risks we are not in a position to handle with our current structure, sorry, i vote be very very careful what you wish for. Be proud to pay and contribute to Rugby League in Halifax.

A few years ago I went to Castleford for a Halifax game. Walking around the ground I found in one section, stalls selling sweets and small Castleford merchandise such as scarves and flags.There was also a bouncy castle and other stuff for the kids. It was a busy little area full of family's.

I have also been told and have never witnessed for my self, that at the Sydney rugby league games you turn up just before lunch with BBQ and beer and watch first an under 15's game then a under 16's game then a reserve game then the main event, the first team. Other entertainment is on inbertween the games also.

I do like the Idea of having as meany things as possible around the ground to give it a carnival atmosphere and family orientated environment at all the games.

I am not suggesting we allow people to have their own BBQ and drink their own beer. The point is entertainment is what Halifax have to sell. The rugby team do a fantastic job at this but if you could increase the entertainment or make it last for longer more people will attend the games. If you can make an afternoon of it you will take the family, if its for a couple of hours you may take the family somewhere you can make an afternoon of it. I know there is a cost involved but I think, (and no I have not done the sums and wouldn't be able to without looking at the books) it could be done. Also the longer you keep people around the more they will spend on food and drink and the merchandise.

Good post.
I went to the Legends match before the Toulouse game, now...... an offer to get as many in as possible on the day and subsequent loss of turnstile receipts and ideas you mention could be offset against greater spending on merchandise while in the ground and attract more families for the day.

Good idea but non of the food-drink money goes to the Club.

And theres only a small minority of merchandise money goes to the Club as well.It`s X Blades.

So you've sold your soul as well ?

other areas of revenue can be explored. I used to own a stall in York. On this stall I sold wrist bands / friendship bracelets @£1 each during school holidays I could make £1000+ a day just on these. You can get anything printed on them,they could sell limited edition flags, posters, player cards and so on, exclusive to the club. Food and drink!! new contracts could be drawn up.