Jacob Rees-Mogg would NEVER use a bidet. He's way above that sort of oikish pleb move. Why lower YOURSELF onto a bidet when nanny can polish your anus with a spit-moistened hankie.

lavabit mea sis deorsum as he might probably say...

Never spit - that's for the lower orders; Jacob's nanny uses towelettes, moistened with the salty tears of homeless people. Jacob's anus is always spotlessly clean.

Homeless tears are really rather moreish. Use sparingly if the shaved truffle's aroma is beginning to wane or if the the foie gras has been carelessly made with inferior brandy (for example using a £1000 cognac like some type of beastly savage, rather than a Remy Martin. ).

I'll be glad when Jacob finally silences the insidious remainer elite.

Yeah nice little drift off the debate, but don't get to cosy mate as hostilities WILL be resumed

hostilities?

differences of opinions, granted, but I don't think anyone is/has been hostile.

Agreed mate. wrong word

Best fun on the Sin Bin for a few years and I haven't even charged for it.

I like how the Brexit Secretary is trying to frame the EU’s restatement of a consistent position as re-running old arguments.

Desperation, denial, or does he just not get it?

Can you imagine if the EU tried to renegotiate this deal on one narrow point, without offering any concessions in return? There’d be absolute outrage. But this big unwieldy behemoth is able get itself aligned behind one position, while we exploit our supposed agility by running repeatedly into well signposted traps of our own design. And still we’re blaming them.

The vote next week will be pivotal in what happens next.
Assuming that May's deal is voted down and this still looks most likely, then we are looking at either no deal or a delay, with delay looking most likely.
Any cracks in either of the main parties could properly fracture and it's just possible that Corbyn could get his chance in a GE.
Expect some fur to fly.

It is so embarrassing we are an absolute laughing stock, why would the EU give way let me think now,
They won't negotiate because
They don't want us to leave as we are one of the highest contributors.
Might give other EU countries the same idea
Our negotiating position is weak as they know we have absolutely no stomach for a no deal.
If it goes to a second referendum remain might just win.

They will negotiate because
erm let me think

Ironically, the only way that the EU will move is, if they believe that it's going to be no deal.
We should had said that we are leaving on 29th March with no deal unless we got "what we wanted".

This would have put a whole different focus on the negotiations, especially as there would be no divorce payment with no deal.

Think you could be wrong about the payment.

We are obliged to a payment regardless of the deal struck. Unless we wish to become pariahs, a bit like North Korea as John Major pointed out, non payment isn't an option.

You might be right, this is the 39 billion the amount we agreed with the EU as our commitments that we signed up for up until 2020. We could refuse to pay it if we leave without a deal as we shouldn't then be tied into the European courts, however, they (the EU) could take us to the international court which they probably would.

On top of that there might be other payments in the divorce bill for example pensions.

My bad.
I foolishly believed Domonic Raab, who said that we wouldn't pay unless there was a deal.
Politicians eh

I couldn't agree with you more, if you look back at my previous posts I have repeatedly said we should not take it off the table, why would you. Of course I wouldn't want to use it, however, I feel it would be perfect for these backstop negotiations, I really don't know what else we can use as a negotiating tool.

I still have an issue with democracy. If you wanted to arrive at the best solution to a problem how would you achieve it?
1.Would you ask everyone in the country,irrespective of intelligence or education?
2. Would you allow people with a priveleged background and/ or wealth have more of a say?
3. Would you allow people with expertise and intelligence have more of a say?
4. Would you give up on democracy altogether?

The clever ones are supposed to be the elected members, not those who voted for them.

Finally we agree.



I've said this all along. The country hit hardest by no deal would not be the UK, but the Republic of Ireland. They know and we know it, but none of us can be seen to be using the Irish situation as a gambling chip. This is precisely why we've seen the RoI taking a rather unconvincing and utterly illogical hard line.

That's without taking into account the devastating impact across the rest of the EU. No deal is not a good thing for anyone.

The EU simply cannot be seen to throw the RoI off a cliff. In an already fractious EU, they can't risk further weakness or advocate damage to its members. They will have to move. You know how we keep hearing experienced politicians telling us the EU always blinks late? I'm of the view that's why. It's also why we've seen certain EU leaders losing their sh=t. They can't say it, but the threat of a hard Irish border and the impact on RoI is what it all hangs on. Especially when it concerns a member nation that has hardly been enthusiastically EU in the past.

I could be wrong, but I hope not.

Although the RoI will be hit hard by Brexit and would be hit even harder by a no-deal Brexit, I don’t see much of a case for it having a bigger impact than on the UK.

In terms of trade, the UK accounts for 22% of RoI’s imports and 12% of their exports.

The EU accounts for 53% of the UK’s imports and 44% of our exports.

I terms of the impact of a hard-border re-igniting conflict, Great Britain already subsidises (for want of a better word) NI more than the UK does the EU - and that’s not per capita, that’s absolute amount. That number will only go up if the Troubles return.

You say that Ireland’s position is unconvincing and illogical, but surely that’s even more true for ours. I think our position has been based too much on what Brexiteers wish was true, rather than what is true, and that is a deeply flawed approach to negotiation.

I know that there’s more distrust of experts than there used to be, especially on the Brexit side of the argument, and it is wise to think both about what people say and why they are saying it. However, you’re now suggesting that we trust the judgement of ‘experienced politicians’, [usome of whom[/u suggest that the EU might blink. I assume these are people like David Davis, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg? The same preening, feeble-minded wazzocks who got us in this mess.

I'm not sure of the figures but I do know that ROI economy is closely linked to ours, hence our loan when they were skint. Im not sure of the actual figures, however, what I have seen consistently is that as a percentage they will not lose as much as us but it is still a hefty amount. The biggest issue to a no deal Brexit at the moment I believe is the backstop, so its in the interest of the ROI to negotiate as us.

My prediction is: Our weak representatives in the House of commons have already ruled out a no deal Brexit so that negotiating angle has gone, in my opinion the EU will not negotiate anymore "why should they" we have no negotiating position, we are a laughing stock (unless someone on here can correct me) we will end up with another divisive referendum which, as has been mentioned on here and ive no reason to disagree with it that due to the younger people in this country that can now vote it might just swing a narrow remain victory (which will achieve what ?) the millions that voted leave in the last referendum and vote leave again including myself will feel cheated, there will possibly be some unrest (I would hope not), whilst The smug Eurocrats in Brussels will be congratulating themselves and use us as a beating stick to any other country that dares thinking about leaving.

I really hope you don't mean that the only feeble minded wazzocks are only on the Brexit side of the argument mate, they are by no means the ones that got us into this mess, the whole collective in the House of Commons have got us into this mess IMO

No side has a monopoly on feeble minded wazzockry. David Cameron, and much of the Remain campaign, springs to mind. However, remain doesn’t have people pushing this particular idea. My point really was that citing somebody like Johnson or Davis as experinced politicians whose opinions I can take reassurance from would be (and in fairness, Cronus hasn’t named anybody specific) about as reassuring to me as me pointing to the positions of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott would be to him.

It was in the interest of the EU, and the RoI as part of it, to negotiate with us. Which is why they did. It’s not in their interest to make the concessions the ERG and DUP have requested, which is why they aren’t. I think the threat or bluff of no deal is pretty peripheral to that calculation - it just isn’t that strong a card. And to extent it does have value it as a sort of kamikaze blackmail. Even if you take a hard-nosed view and say the ends would justify the means, it is still a poor tactical approach imo, unlikely to achieve those ends.

Scotland and NI both voted remain. The unionist community in NI has stronger cultural links to Scotland than any other part of GB. Why not suggest the physical border that nobody wants or expects would be between Scotland and England, with NI on the Scottish side? Nobody is going to bomb it, NI wouldn’t be completely cut off from the rest of the UK, and if Scotland and NI did somehow get stuck in the customs union for a while, presumably most of their people would be fairly relaxed about it. It’s probably a terrible idea, but at least it is an idea, which is more than May has managed since she put down her red wax crayon.

Among the many things about brexit that keeps me amused on a daily basis is the movement for a people’s vote. Unless I am sadly mistaken the referendum was a people’s vote. This was confirmed to me this morning by my Labrador, I asked him if he voted in the referendum. His retort was he has better things to do ,like trying to mount the Labrador bitch at the end of the lane.

What puzzles me about this backstop lark is why a border between north & south should be needed anyway for inter Irish trade . I am sure the island of Ireland could work out a system to satisfy both the UK & Irish governments. The only need for a deviation to this would be for traffic crossing the Irish sea to mainland Britain....NI freight & passengers from ports & airports in the north & Eire freight & passengers from southern ports & airports. Everybody & everything needs a ticket or delivery note & computerisation could soon detect any one trying to cross or bring good through the wrong port.

Quote ="Backwoodsman"Among the many things about brexit that keeps me amused on a daily basis is the movement for a people’s vote. Unless I am sadly mistaken the referendum was a people’s vote. This was confirmed to me this morning by my Labrador, I asked him if he voted in the referendum. His retort was he has better things to do ,like trying to mount the Labrador bitch at the end of the lane.'" I’m not in favour of a second referendum and I couldn’t agree more about trying to pass off a ‘people’s vote’ as something different. That attempted re-labelling is some more feeble-minded wazzockry. However, I do think this quote bears endless repeating: ‘In a 52-48 referendum, this would be unfinished business by a long way’ N. Farage MEP. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36306681 Fair play to David Cameron on ‘neverendum’, as well.

Quote ="Backwoodsman"Among the many things about brexit that keeps me amused on a daily basis is the movement for a people’s vote. Unless I am sadly mistaken the referendum was a people’s vote. This was confirmed to me this morning by my Labrador, I asked him if he voted in the referendum. His retort was he has better things to do ,like trying to mount the Labrador bitch at the end of the lane.'" I’m not in favour of a second referendum and I couldn’t agree more about trying to pass off a ‘people’s vote’ as something different. That attempted re-labelling is some more feeble-minded wazzockry. However, I do think this quote bears endless repeating: ‘In a 52-48 referendum, this would be unfinished business by a long way’ N. Farage MEP. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36306681 Fair play to David Cameron on ‘neverendum’, as well.