A*, you just passed level 2 Brexit

Funny but only time will tell , I live in a massive Labour maj seat , and I don't know anybody who voted stay

Whereas not one of my friends, work colleagues or immediate family voted Leave and I live in Wakefield that was upwards of 60% Leave.

Wakefield was a huge leave area 66.4% and I clearly remember the Question Time programme being from there.
Not too many remainers. It reminded me of going to Widnes on a Friday night and sitting in the wrong place.

If leave voters in marginalised areas think the Tories give a monkey’s about them they’re deluded. Trouble is that for years few others have either, including Labour. The EU means nothing to many people in these areas. Nobody articulated how it benefits them to be in it. They only heard the downside. So when the referendum came along it was a stick with which to beat the establishment.

Indeed - and quite how the likes of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and JRM managed to be re-cast as anti-establishment men of the people is utterly beyond me; that was perhaps one of the biggest failings of our mainstream media, in that they allowed these people to spout their swivel-eyed lies and anti-EU rhetoric, without any genuine challenge.

I'm resigned to some form of Brexit now, but by the Government's own estimate, it will be an absolute economic disaster for everyone but the super-rich, but will hit those marginalised, leave-voting areas worst of all. Then who will they blame?

The establishment of course. "They're all the same".

I fear that the rise of political extremes will continue. Nothing helps the extremist more than feelings of marginalisation and disaffection amongst the electorate especially if that is accompanied by economic hardship.

This is only the beginning.

This is a very important issue and to be fair it is something I never thought about or even considered. If I would have thought about it I am sure that I would have come to the conclusion that the two countries that a no deal would be worse for and as two sovereign states could get their heads together and solve this every important issue between them, without help from the EU.

The governments estimates I believe was concerning a no deal Brexit, as it was mentioned on daily politics today that these government estimates were for the short term only estimates as nobody can predict the long term future.

You high and mighty remoaners make my ache. just get used to the FACT that even though the government spent MILLIONS on the leaflets telling the electorate why we should remain which I'm sure you lot will think was totally democratic and justified (a total waste of public money imo), the then chancellor also said that if the country voted to leave the economy would completely collapse, both sides also said time and time again that to leave the EU would mean leaving the single market and the customs union and still the country voted democratically I might add to leave.

reading your posts I feel really sorry for us poor 17+ million marginalised individuals who voted to leave.

If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.

I agree in general that's why we have elections every 5 years or so that is our democracy, however, this was not an election it was promised and put to the British electorate as a one off referendum. It was also promised by the people who we democratically elected that there would not be another referendum that should now be honoured

I don't know if you know something I don't mate but there is no indication that the British public has radically changed its mind.

It's easier to fool people than it is to get people to admit they've been fooled (Mark Twain).

Very true it would seem

Here's what Leave said: [iOne can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.[/i leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

Here's what Leave said: [iOne can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.[/i leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

Quote ="Bullseye"Here's what Leave said: [iOne can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.[/i leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128'" Ive never heard of the Leave Alliance to be fair, and I'm not going to argue with either side of the argument re leaving on WTO rules because I just don't know, however, I do find it a bit OTT to say that the 5th largest economy in the world could not survive on WTO but hey. I have said on previous posts that I am absolutely not against a deal with the EU which would keep us in a customs union and a trade trade agreement, that is why we joined what was the Common Market in the first place.

Quote ="Bullseye"Here's what Leave said: [iOne can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.[/i leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128'" Ive never heard of the Leave Alliance to be fair, and I'm not going to argue with either side of the argument re leaving on WTO rules because I just don't know, however, I do find it a bit OTT to say that the 5th largest economy in the world could not survive on WTO but hey. I have said on previous posts that I am absolutely not against a deal with the EU which would keep us in a customs union and a trade trade agreement, that is why we joined what was the Common Market in the first place.

“I believe it is clearly in our national interest to remain a member of the European Union”.

Theresa May
25 April 2016

They look to be a pragmatic pro-Brexit group, whose attitude broadly seems to be ‘we won, let’s not mess it up’.

I am worried about a no deal exit. We might survive, but we wouldn’t come through remotely unscathed, imo.

I think, finally, we’re inching towards May’s deal or delay. If the latter, well, then what? I think that is what is worrying the more realistic Brexiteers. If you’re 20 points up with 2 minutes to go, you don’t try to get the match abandoned! Even if the ref pings you slightly harshly for a forward pass.

Absolutely agree with what you say. If May can get the right clarifications on the backstop which is important and this seems to be the main sticking point I really hope it goes through and we can then move on. Lets also be realistic, its as much in Irelands interest as it is ours.

Your point is ??, she has never hidden the fact that she was/is a remainer. I give her credit for that in taking on what is and was always going to be a poison chalice, whether she's doing a good jobs of it is a whole new chat.

How are important are those clarifications though, really?

If there’s a lack of trust that the EU will act in good faith, then what’s the value of more reassurances?

And if you want a backstop, what’s the point of a time-limited one or one that either side can end unilaterally? You’re effectively saying you’re willing to proceed to the next stage with the issue unresolved.

To me it’s pretty binary, there either is or isn’t a backstop. Any compromise will be window dressing. Something has to give, and if the alternative to May’s deal is delay rather than no deal, the ERG have to gamble it all or get it over the line in what they regard as an imperfect state. I’ve got very little sympathy for them, as May has given them most of what they want, and as much as was realistically possible, which can’t said for most of the rest of us.

I’ve been working on no deal preparations for the NHS Trust I work in for several months now. The amount of complexity is quite mind boggling. The effects of “no deal” wouldn’t necessarily be felt immediately on March 29th/30th but would most definitely be felt in the weeks, months and years that followed. All trusts have been testing various scenarios affecting nine separate themes and each presents problems that have no easy answers. If anyone thinks “no deal” is no big thing they’re either ignorant or lying.

I worked for the NHS for 37 years and have been through countless scares that have never come to fruition, the millennium bug, the last stock pile was a few years back when bird flu was predicted which proved a total waste of money, but I'm sure the NHS has to be prepared for any eventuality.

I could see issues in the weeks and months after we leave of course I can, but years ?? I find it hard to believe and I'm sure there must be massive incompetence if that were to happen, however, I am just not as enlighted as you are or as you say I might just be ignorant.

In my opinion, we will not leave without a deal there is simply no appetite in the commons for it and unless the general public as a whole knows different then its just not going to happen when we have the second referendum
.

I tend to agree - so that being the case, why has the PM consistently used it as a threat, wilfully ignoring the impact on business, institutions and the economy? It's bordering on criminal negligence to persistently deny MP's the opportunity to vote, in an attempt to force through a deal that was rejected just a few weeks ago with the largest majority in the history of parliament.

I'm now up to my umpteenth No Deal Contingency Plan document on behalf of either NHS Trusts or LA's - I have now started to answer the inevitable final question, "What can the LA/Trust do to help you?" with, "Provide us with a functioning government."

Does the lack of trust not stem from the EU in requiring the backstop in the first place mate ??, the lack of a border is just so important for the economy between the two countries and more importantly continued peace, somebody said in an earlier post the they were playing with that peace process and I couldn't agree more .As it stands the backstop is not acceptable to the DUP as they would feel distance from the UK and I believe the republican communities see the lack of no border as there link to Republic and both needs to be respected.

I say it again its just a shame on such an important issue that the two nations can not come to an agreement themselves.

I have agreed with you in a previous post on the subject of agreeing the deal, if the backstop and the other proposals put forward by Labour can be resolved which I'm sure it can unless the EU dig there heals in then the deal in my opinion should be agreed and move on.

Not massive incompetence - just a consequence of Brexit.

Reduced numbers of EU staff across all parts of NHS – over years that will have an impact. Working in the UK may become less attractive because of devaluation of the pound. A significant proportion of health and social care workers come from the EU. The NHS already has 100k staff vacancies including 40k nurse vacancies. Many posts are very difficult to fill now. What will it be like in years to come?

Reduced numbers of EU students at UK teaching hospitals would be enough to making them nonviable which would have a knock on effect on training UK staff too.

Due to the large number of vacancies and ongoing issues with recruitment Trusts would need to redeploy senior clinically qualified managers to fill gaps in operational roles. Reduction in GPs and Health Care Professionals working in Primary/Community Care means that more patients are coming into Emergency Departments for treatment of minor ailments and illnesses. No wonder they want to get rid of the 4 hour target. There may be far longer waiting times ahead.

Following the UK’s exit from the EU the prices paid by the NHS for imported medication are likely to increase. In order to save money and maintain services to patients, cheaper alternatives would need to be sourced GPs would be asked to prescribe these lower cost drugs. However, patients may not respond to the alternative medication and re-attendances may increase putting extra burden on staff and budgets.

With the UK leaving the EU, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) will likely see a dramatic increase in the number of requests for UK licences. MHRA will be stretched by the extra workload and as a result the UK approval process for new drugs would get much slower.

Some companies may threaten not to get their drugs licensed in the UK stating that it is easier and quicker to get a license via the European Medicines Agency (EMA) as this authorises use across the whole of the EU providing a much larger market for their products. If this situation is not resolved many of these new drugs will not be available for patients in the UK meaning poorer care for UK patients.

I could go on, these are just a few of the longer term effects. The short and medium term effects are there too.