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| Quote ="The Video Ref"
The irony is that, in another thread on this board, people are making fun of a disabled person. Yet this is deemed ok?
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Paul Wood ? |
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Poor taste? Yes!
Worthy of a prison term? No!
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I don't see what the problem is? There is a clear and obvious distinction between what is grossly offensive and what isn't, particularly when it involves children who are missing and feared dead.
If you go by the rule of not being vile when posting, you'll likely be okay. You should never put something on the internet that you wouldn't be willing to stand up and support as your opinion in public.'"
So if he'd stood up in public and aired those views, would that have been acceptable to you?
I agree entirely with your sentiment though - have the courage of your convictions, no matter how distasteful they may be. |
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The sentence might be fine. It would all depend on what he tweeted. I don't know what he tweeted.
One thing I do hate is how far we have slid down the slippery slope of people feeling able to express the vilest language and abuse, largely because of a combination of one or more of the following:
a) increasingly, nothing will happen ("I can say what I like, you can't do fsck all about it you fscking " etc
b) total lack of discipline and morals when being brought up, leading to a total lack of basic respect for your fellow man
c) I know my rights
Obviously, the state society has degenerated to, you can't lock up everyone who descends to the vilest language and abuse, but still, on the rare occasions when some arrogant self-centred oaf gets his come-uppance, even if only a modest one, I find it hard to feel in any way sorry.
I also find it mildly amusing that some profess to think that tweeting is just like a private conversation with your mates. The whole point of the offence (which he admitted) was that it is sending a "grossly offensive public electronic communication". Only morons think Twitter is in any way "private".
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Twitter is not private. You're right. But it is not, and never will resemble a sophisticated communique that elicits care and forethought when in use. It is a medium incapable of dealing with anything serious. Therefore I think when someone is using twitter - the consequences dished out to offensive remarks are disproportionate to remarks said in more conventional environments. Internet communication with its immediacy and with the shroud of anonymity (whether it be of yourself, or from authorities) - very often makes one say what one wouldn't necessarily say otherwise. Therefore there is a discrepancy between what effectively is "typing stuff on the internet" and abuse outside, threats and/or harassment.
But then Frankie Boyle makes jokes about Madeleine McCann - and I'm struggling to spot the difference. (neither being funny, of course)
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Do we have the prison capacity to lock up all the people that are trolls on the internet?
If not, what are the government's plans to increase prison capacity?
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A locked room somewhere is probably the best place for someone as thick as that.
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Where do we make our complaints about how offensive all the grief tourists wallowing in someone elses misery are?
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What ever happened to sticks and stones?
Seriously, 12 weeks in prison for a vile comment?
We have repeat burglers constantly avoiding prisoner, child molesters getting conditional discharges and we put someone in prison for being a tasteless, uncaring moron?
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"What ever happened to sticks and stones?
Seriously, 12 weeks in prison for a vile comment?
...'"
I still don't know what he tweeted, but from the very limited reports, it wasn't one tweet, he was at it over two days. |
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| Quote ="RL13"..
But then Frankie Boyle makes jokes about Madeleine McCann - and I'm struggling to spot the difference. (neither being funny, of course)'"
Well, and again without knowing what was tweeted, I do not believe that this lad was trying to make people laugh.
You also for some reason seem to overlook that he pleaded guilty to the offence. |
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But 12 weeks in prison? Perspective surely considering all the ills in the world.
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Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Well, and again without knowing what was tweeted, I do not believe that this lad was trying to make people laugh.
You also for some reason seem to overlook that he pleaded guilty to the offence.'"
It wasn’t tweeted, it was on his facebook page,
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/0 ... ods-jailed |
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Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Well, and again without knowing what was tweeted, I do not believe that this lad was trying to make people laugh.
You also for some reason seem to overlook that he pleaded guilty to the offence.'"
It wasn’t tweeted, it was on his facebook page,
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/0 ... ods-jailed | |
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"But 12 weeks in prison? Perspective surely considering all the ills in the world.'"
I don't know how I can assess the perspective if I don't know what he put. I don't think it helps to try to blur the discussion by inferring that because many people get away with or walk free from perceived very bad things, that should go in his favour, though.
I'll bet it is a message that has been driven very widely home amongst the millions of Twitter users, though. Even those as stupid as him. |
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"What ever happened to sticks and stones? '"
This is an interesting point.
The thing is, words often can do far more harm than a punch. Much bullying is not physical in nature - but that doesn't mean it does no damage. Self-esteem, for instance, is far more difficult to 'cure' than a bruised arm. We know, for instance, of cases where verbal bullying has driven children and young people to suicide. So it's not something that is 'victimless'.
And it seems perhaps odd that many people, who would be openly dismissive of anyone appearing to favour a perpetrator over a victim would do that themselves when it comes to verbal bullying.
But I am equally uncomfortable with what appears to be an increasing culture of saying that anything that offends (or offends over a certain line - which is inevitably pretty subjective) is a criminal offence.
There is a difference between this incident (as reported) and bullying.
There should never be any right not to be offended. And this, in my book, is a vast overreaction.
Incitement would be a different matter, but there are laws to deal with that.
Criminalising offense, though? No. Absolutely not. And yes, that includes 'hate speech' too, providing it is not incitement. |
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I with you on the bullying, but this wasn't a prolonged bullying campaign it was a very bad judgement on 'his own facebook page', supposedly only for people who know him.
April's family would never have known and going on to the self esteem point, i would suggest this lad probably suffers himself, it doesn't in anyway vindicate what he says, and i personally would never advocate it but the prosecution seems a grossly disproportionate response to something that was just ill advised and plain idiotic.
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What happened to offence being taken rather than given?
There are plenty of things around you could take offence at, most of us just rise above it and get on with life.
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Ridiculous to jail someone for comments on his own page.
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What about if people start saying stuff about politicians, and they find it vile?
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| Quote ="Mintball"...
But I am equally uncomfortable with what appears to be an increasing culture of saying that anything that offends (or offends over a certain line - which is inevitably pretty subjective) is a criminal offence.
..'"
Me too. All the more so because the principal lobbyists for extended criminalisation are, predictably, the religionists, who all seem to unite on wanting a keen blasphemy crime actively being policed. And they can probably be offended several hundred factors more than you or I could ever hope to be. |
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Quote ="Horatio Yed"I with you on the bullying, but this wasn't a prolonged bullying campaign ...'"
Oh, I completely agree.
Quote ="Horatio Yed"... it was a very bad judgement on 'his own facebook page', supposedly only for people who know him...'"
But even if it was intended for a wider audience ... Should Kelvin MacKenzie go to jail for what he said about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough?
Quote ="Horatio Yed"... going on to the self esteem point, i would suggest this lad probably suffers himself, it doesn't in anyway vindicate what he says, and i personally would never advocate it but the prosecution seems a grossly disproportionate response to something that was just ill advised and plain idiotic.'"
Agreed and agreed. Go back to the Tom Daley incident during the Games – a teenager, living on their own in a bedsit? We're talking about someone who needs help to get their life sorted out rather than a prison sentence. Fortunately, there was no conviction there.
One does have to wonder how that is different from 'all sinners will die and go to hell'.
Quote ="Horatio Yed"What about if people start saying stuff about politicians, and they find it vile?'"
Does it count that I tweeted Danny Alexander and called him the most underqualified, overpromoted man in government? Politely, of course.
Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Me too. All the more so because the principal lobbyists for extended criminalisation are, predictably, the religionists, who all seem to unite on wanting a keen blasphemy crime actively being policed. And they can probably be offended several hundred factors more than you or I could ever hope to be.'"
Bang on. Although I'd suggest that it has its recent roots in something perhaps slightly different: in criticism of the state of Israel being met (by certain people) with accusations of anti-semitism, a smear that most people are keen to avoid, bearing in mind not-that-distant history.
Some Muslims developed their own strand of that with any criticism of their religion being denounced as 'Islamophobia', and Christians appear unwilling to be left out these days, as we've see – with Lord Carey even now comparing these persecuted souls as akin to the Jews just before the start of the Holocaust 'proper'.
Mind, you've also got the litigiousness of the Scientologists if you dare to suggest they're a c**t.
God is bloody thin-skinned, isn't he? Y'know, for a god. |
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Quote ="Horatio Yed"I with you on the bullying, but this wasn't a prolonged bullying campaign ...'"
Oh, I completely agree.
Quote ="Horatio Yed"... it was a very bad judgement on 'his own facebook page', supposedly only for people who know him...'"
But even if it was intended for a wider audience ... Should Kelvin MacKenzie go to jail for what he said about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough?
Quote ="Horatio Yed"... going on to the self esteem point, i would suggest this lad probably suffers himself, it doesn't in anyway vindicate what he says, and i personally would never advocate it but the prosecution seems a grossly disproportionate response to something that was just ill advised and plain idiotic.'"
Agreed and agreed. Go back to the Tom Daley incident during the Games – a teenager, living on their own in a bedsit? We're talking about someone who needs help to get their life sorted out rather than a prison sentence. Fortunately, there was no conviction there.
One does have to wonder how that is different from 'all sinners will die and go to hell'.
Quote ="Horatio Yed"What about if people start saying stuff about politicians, and they find it vile?'"
Does it count that I tweeted Danny Alexander and called him the most underqualified, overpromoted man in government? Politely, of course.
Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Me too. All the more so because the principal lobbyists for extended criminalisation are, predictably, the religionists, who all seem to unite on wanting a keen blasphemy crime actively being policed. And they can probably be offended several hundred factors more than you or I could ever hope to be.'"
Bang on. Although I'd suggest that it has its recent roots in something perhaps slightly different: in criticism of the state of Israel being met (by certain people) with accusations of anti-semitism, a smear that most people are keen to avoid, bearing in mind not-that-distant history.
Some Muslims developed their own strand of that with any criticism of their religion being denounced as 'Islamophobia', and Christians appear unwilling to be left out these days, as we've see – with Lord Carey even now comparing these persecuted souls as akin to the Jews just before the start of the Holocaust 'proper'.
Mind, you've also got the litigiousness of the Scientologists if you dare to suggest they're a c**t.
God is bloody thin-skinned, isn't he? Y'know, for a god. | |
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"What about if people start saying stuff about politicians, and they find it vile?'"
Wonder if anyone joking/commenting about Jimmy Saville will suffer the same fate???
It is a slippery slope and some of the prosecutions that came from last years riots were equally farcical (as in what was posted on the net) and it could indeed be used for more political purposes very soon and perhaps that is what the powers at be actually want.
Could make the next election and any vote on EEC membership "interesting". |
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I the case of Savile, it's reported today that the police are investigating well over 100 allegations of sexual offences.
My question is, why? I'm not saying somebody shouldn't, but how is it a police matter, if the alleged offender is dead? You can't prosecute a corpse.
I'd be happier if our severely stretched police resources were spent just on investigations that might lead to some villains being apprehended and dealt with.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"
My question is, why? I'm not saying somebody shouldn't, but how is it a police matter, if the alleged offender is dead? You can't prosecute a corpse.
'"
No, but you can prosecute those who may have 'aided and abetted' in any crimes and who withheld or suppressed evidence. |
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