I found this interesting (albeit lengthy) twitter thread regarding Corbyn, and Labour's alleged problem with antisemitism. Worth a read. https://twitter.com/BlogRedRobin/status ... 06272?s=19

I found this interesting (albeit lengthy) twitter thread regarding Corbyn, and Labour's alleged problem with antisemitism. Worth a read. https://twitter.com/BlogRedRobin/status ... 06272?s=19

With an added line of homophobia as a bonus.

Quote ="Charlie Sheen"I found this interesting (albeit lengthy) twitter thread regarding Corbyn, and Labour's alleged problem with antisemitism. Worth a read. https://twitter.com/BlogRedRobin/status ... 06272?s=19'" Interesting blog, although the finger being pointed at Corbyn is not that he is anti-Semitic but, that he is failing to deal with the issue within his own party and as leader, it's up to him ? We all know what the "establishment" and MSM are capable of, with Hillsborough being just one shocking example of a whole city being smeared. However, Corbyn has to fight his corner and stop sitting on the bloody fence. The Tories have been badly split and woeful in their handling of Brexit but, Labour, instead of "selling" their viewpoint have largely sat on their hands, hoping for a Tory implosion, rather than risk putting their own viewpoint forward. This is for one of two reasons, either they (Labour) are similarly split on the issue and/ or, he hoped that he could seize power by keeping schtum.

Quote ="Charlie Sheen"I found this interesting (albeit lengthy) twitter thread regarding Corbyn, and Labour's alleged problem with antisemitism. Worth a read. https://twitter.com/BlogRedRobin/status ... 06272?s=19'" Interesting blog, although the finger being pointed at Corbyn is not that he is anti-Semitic but, that he is failing to deal with the issue within his own party and as leader, it's up to him ? We all know what the "establishment" and MSM are capable of, with Hillsborough being just one shocking example of a whole city being smeared. However, Corbyn has to fight his corner and stop sitting on the bloody fence. The Tories have been badly split and woeful in their handling of Brexit but, Labour, instead of "selling" their viewpoint have largely sat on their hands, hoping for a Tory implosion, rather than risk putting their own viewpoint forward. This is for one of two reasons, either they (Labour) are similarly split on the issue and/ or, he hoped that he could seize power by keeping schtum.

Love your command of the English language (smashed it) .I point out the spectacular Faiilure of socialism in Venezuela because corbyn and Livingston and the rest of the left wing hierarchy have for years held up Venezuela ,as a paragon of virtue. This was to be how a government should be run, meanwhile the country is destitute. Strangely they are now silent on the issue. Although Livingston as usual is blaming it all on the Americans. If you like we could discuss other socialist disasters, Russia for instance. Corbyns puppet master milne still is in rapture to the delights of socialism/communism.

And here's the rub - he has, in his own measured way; the party has been quietly dealing with allegations of AS and found that of 673 allegations, 400 were about non-Labour members; the rest have been dealt with, and they published the figures recently, despite it being even more ammunition for the anti-Corbyn crowd to fire at him.

So 0.1% of the membership has been found guilty of some level of anti-Semitic behaviour and sanctioned accordingly; that's a vanishingly small % of the largest membership of any political party in Europe, and a much smaller % than in Labour under the Blair/Brown/Milliband years - and significantly smaller than on the right, and in wider society. Meanwhile, prominent Muslims have levelled allegations of endemic Islamophobia at the Tories, and the media remains silent on that issue - no calls for enquiries, expulsions or resignations - and no equivalent of the Chakrabarti report that Corbyn commissioned in 2016.

There's no doubt that some people are anti-Semitic - just as some are racist or prejudiced towards people who can be described as 'other' - maybe even towards people who have a 'funny tinge' - and that needs dealing with wherever it rears its head; not least the re-emergence of the casual, knockabout racism that the Brexit issue has created, but the weaponisation of antisemitism does a disservice to Jews and turns the whole issue into a political football.

And once and for all - being vehemently opposed to the brutal oppression of the Palestinian people is *not* anti-Semitic - and to suggest so, is to diminish the voices of the many Jews who also oppose the apartheid policies of Netanyahu and his thuggish regime.

Love your command of the English language (smashed it) .'"

Venezuela shows why Socialism on that scale simply doesn't work. How much did Chavez spend of the country's money funding his last campaign!! It is what happens when the government have access to all the capital of a country they just spend it unwisely - the same will happen if Labour get it.

If you say Venezuela enough times, it doesn't make it any more of a convincing argument; particularly if you ignore the effect of US sanctions, and the desperate attempts to get hold of their oil reserves.

By your argument, one could say that the global wealth inequality, where 42 people hold as much wealth as the poorest 50% of the worlds population - proves that capitalism on this scale simply doesn't work.

Ooh let's do a list of all the banks, businesses, privatisations & infrastructure projects that the Tories have wisely thrown billions at & have failed.

While it’s arguable whether it is a socialist system, and it isn’t remotely a model i’d advocate... China these last couple of decades.

Also, it isn’t like Latin America hasn’t had it’s fair share of deplorable and failing right wing and capitalist regimes. While Venezuela is a striking example, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is widely generizable.

The extent of democracy and corruption in a country is a better indicator of likely success, which can be defined in different ways admittedly, than where it sits on the economic left-right spectrum.

The idea that we’re only a Corbyn premiership away from becoming Venezuela is ludicrous hyperbole.

As should the levels of literacy/education, employment, health, social security & housing.

Quote ="tigertot"As should the levels of literacy/education, employment, health, social security & housing.'" A lot of that correlates with democracy. Well according to this book anyway... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dictators-Hand ... /ref=nodl_ that I found very interesting and pretty compelling. There’s a 20-minute film about it by a guy call CGP Grey on YouTube that gives a good summary. In the book (not sure about the YouTube) there’s also a ‘different’ take on foreign aid. That it is usually a bribe, rather than generosity, and it is very often an ineffective bribe. For example paying another country to fight a war as a proxy on your behalf - they’re incentivised to never quite win, because then the cash will stop flowing. Also, debt relief to non-democratic nations tends not to be helpful.

Quote ="tigertot"As should the levels of literacy/education, employment, health, social security & housing.'" A lot of that correlates with democracy. Well according to this book anyway... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dictators-Hand ... /ref=nodl_ that I found very interesting and pretty compelling. There’s a 20-minute film about it by a guy call CGP Grey on YouTube that gives a good summary. In the book (not sure about the YouTube) there’s also a ‘different’ take on foreign aid. That it is usually a bribe, rather than generosity, and it is very often an ineffective bribe. For example paying another country to fight a war as a proxy on your behalf - they’re incentivised to never quite win, because then the cash will stop flowing. Also, debt relief to non-democratic nations tends not to be helpful.

I was not suggesting that the UK would end up like Venezuela - most of our oil has already gone. What I am suggesting is if you get a Labour Government public spending will go through the roof and there are only two ways of funding that. Higher taxes or higher borrowing

Corbyn has suggested that the minimum wage be raised to £10/hour - seems like a good idea until you think about who is going to pay for it. Take Morrisons the impact of a minimum wages increase on that company will be to halve their profits. So its likely that prices will rise its pretty certain so we all pay but what happens in the public sector who pays?

Governments waste money because it doesn't matter if budgets are not kept to and Governments are much slower to react to poorly performing projects the NHS IT patient record system is an example of Labour government run project. The more government spending the higher the inefficiency and greater waste cost.

Venezuela is an authoritarian state which should be opposed.
They're paying the price for not diversifying their economy. Oil makes up 97% of their exports, and they've never been able to recover since the oil price dropped a few years ago.
Although, they're not as socialistic as you may think, most land, capital, and businesses is privately owned.

I dont agree with the way the opposition and foreign governments have declared the opposition leader the rightfull president, considering they boycotted the last one.
Mudero should just call an election under the supervision of the UN (although, I think when the UN offered to observe the last election, the opposition declined).
Something tells me that the election would be closer than the media would have us believe, which is why most people opposed to the Mudero government are calling for him to resign, as opposed to calling for an election.

Higher tax revenue can be achieved through stimulus spending too. I appreciate it is a stretch, but no more so than lower taxes for the wealthy as stimuli and nonsense like trickledown.



On a basic level, it’s a transfer of wealth from shareholders to workers. Secondary consequences are harder to predict - it could be inflationary, and it could increase economic activity and equality. You never really know until you pull the lever. As Brexit enthusiasts are fond of saying, the models are often wrong. At the end of the day, as CGP Grey says, politicians reward the people who are important in getting them into power and keeping them there. Corbyn presumably sees votes among the low-paid.

What is about you and Morrison’s btw?



Organisations in which incentives are poorly structured are inefficient. I don’t think that’s more true for Government’s than any other types. Those bankers who crashed the economy 12 years ago weren’t bad people - or if they were that wasn’t the cause. It was just a horribly distorted and inefficient system.

Who do you think is paying for low wages now? Businesses are effectively being subsidised through tax credits to pay poverty wages - so that shareholders can keep creaming large dividends, whilst the means of production (the workers) are kept in thrall through low pay and reliance on state aid.

Perhaps the economy needs to be rebalanced to such an extent that the super wealthy have to accept that there is such a thing as 'enough' money - and that making a profit out of a business that does not rely on state subsidised wages is still possible, but there are limits if one is to accept a wider social responsibility. The problem with late stage capitalism, is that the last bit is talked about on websites and in policies, but it doesn't actually exist at the top of organisations.

Nail on head Bren.
People dont realise that the government is actually subsidising ALL businesses.
Mind you, left to their own devices, big business would be happy for its workers to live in poverty "as long as the work gets done".
If you go back in history and look at some of the major capital projects, people were utterly expendable and thousands lost their lives constructing railways, roads, mining.
Thankfully, a more civilised society has deemed this intolerable but, greed seem to be the driving factor is so much of the modern world.
I dont actually know how this can be changed.
Maybe its time to rid the world of tax havans and tax avoidance schemes.

The hypocrisy in how we are supposed to "worship" the rich and famous, who earn millions and yet avoid paying their share of tax. Maybe it's time that these people were called out for being "cheats" of the state, rather than super stars.

And that's exactly what Labour are proposing to do - hence the massive and organised mobilisation of the establishment, including the Blairite centrists in their own ranks, to prevent them at all costs.

Welcome aboard comrade - solidarity!

This gets trotted out by the right every time increasing the pay of the lowest paid is suggested. Strange how the world didn't stop. Neither did the lowest paid cause the world financial crisis. Also strange how the 'happiest' countries in the world tend to have lower gaps between the lower & higher paid, & the lowest wage is closest to the average. And those countries are prosperous.


Cobblers. More unsubstantiated right wing drivel. I manage public money, the private companies I employ constantly are looking for ways to break that budget.

As you manage public money, can I ask you a serious question.
What happens if you or one of your colleagues overspends the budget ?

Would you be sacked, lose any bonus entitlement (I know that this may not be on the table in the first place) or suffer any serious fall out ? or, would it just be a hefty bollocking ?

Although I have no doubt that you carry out your work diligently, having a boss who's actual money you may be overspending cannot compare to going over budget in public office.

We have an overall budget (>£500m over 5 years) for my programme. That is broken down into many projects, each has its own budget. Each should contain sensible contingencies. There is a change control process with approvals at escalating levels. I don't need shouting at or belittling if a job goes wrong, but I do need to work out why & avoid it the next time. Overall we are well under budget, because we are good at what we do, but some individual projects have had serious cost pressures. I get no bonus, car, private health insurance, just a basic salary & a degree of job security. There is undoubtedly poor performance in other areas of the section, but that is down to bad management that has allowed to go for years. There are processes in place for dealing with poor performance but it is the hardest part of the job.
I worked in the private sector prior to my current area of work. The issues are the same; if you are going over budget you either value engineer (effectively reduce scope) or the client pays.

How do the low paid get paid through taxation revenue or government borrowing - where does the taxation come from - the majority from the private sector. So the shareholders - a big chunk of which will provide your pension on retirement are using the dividends to provide a return on the monies invested by you and me.

If your saying increase minimum wage lower benefits - I'm Ok with that but be prepared for an increase in inflation, unemployment and an increase in business failures. Unless we are all prepared to pay more - business has to pass on increases in cost or go bust.

I don't disagree that a rebalancing needs to happen somehow but are you seriously suggesting a cap on corporate profitability i.e. what is enough profit?

One thing is certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are.

Quote ="Sal Paradise"How do the low paid get paid through taxation revenue or government borrowing - where does the taxation come from - the majority from the private sector. So the shareholders - a big chunk of which will provide your pension on retirement are using the dividends to provide a return on the monies invested by you and me. If your saying increase minimum wage lower benefits - I'm Ok with that but be prepared for an increase in inflation, unemployment and an increase in business failures. Unless we are all prepared to pay more - business has to pass on increases in cost or go bust. I don't disagree that a rebalancing needs to happen somehow but are you seriously suggesting a cap on corporate profitability i.e. what is enough profit? One thing is certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are.'" A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf. https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001 ... ces-in-uk/ According to the above, in 2011-12 uk tax revenue (in billions of £) was derived from: Income tax: 158 National insurance: 101 VAT: 100 Corporation tax: 48 Excise duties: 46 Council tax: 26 Business rates: 25 Other: 85 Also, it is not certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are. We could argue about the likelihood, but it is nowhere near certain, however confident you are on the point.

Quote ="Sal Paradise"How do the low paid get paid through taxation revenue or government borrowing - where does the taxation come from - the majority from the private sector. So the shareholders - a big chunk of which will provide your pension on retirement are using the dividends to provide a return on the monies invested by you and me. If your saying increase minimum wage lower benefits - I'm Ok with that but be prepared for an increase in inflation, unemployment and an increase in business failures. Unless we are all prepared to pay more - business has to pass on increases in cost or go bust. I don't disagree that a rebalancing needs to happen somehow but are you seriously suggesting a cap on corporate profitability i.e. what is enough profit? One thing is certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are.'" A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf. https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001 ... ces-in-uk/ According to the above, in 2011-12 uk tax revenue (in billions of £) was derived from: Income tax: 158 National insurance: 101 VAT: 100 Corporation tax: 48 Excise duties: 46 Council tax: 26 Business rates: 25 Other: 85 Also, it is not certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are. We could argue about the likelihood, but it is nowhere near certain, however confident you are on the point.

Quote ="Mild Rover"A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf. https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001 ... ces-in-uk/ According to the above, in 2011-12 uk tax revenue (in billions of £) was derived from: Income tax: 158 National insurance: 101 VAT: 100 Corporation tax: 48 Excise duties: 46 Council tax: 26 Business rates: 25 Other: 85 Also, it is not certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are. We could argue about the likelihood, but it is nowhere near certain, however confident you are on the point.'" Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?

Quote ="Mild Rover"A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf. https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001 ... ces-in-uk/ According to the above, in 2011-12 uk tax revenue (in billions of £) was derived from: Income tax: 158 National insurance: 101 VAT: 100 Corporation tax: 48 Excise duties: 46 Council tax: 26 Business rates: 25 Other: 85 Also, it is not certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are. We could argue about the likelihood, but it is nowhere near certain, however confident you are on the point.'" Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?

Quote ="Sal Paradise"Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?'" As a before and after: https://www.historyextra.com/period/20t ... care-free/ The national institute of care excellence in England (the SMC in Scotland and the AWMSG in Wales) does a massively better job of securing drugs at affordable prices than the Byzantine patchwork of approaches in the US. While I don’t agree with their America First solution, here is a rare example of the Trump administration accurately identifying a problem. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pay-drugs/ As the US Health and Human Services Secretary says, ‘the reason they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialized system.’ It’s a key area in which Liam Fox will need to stand strong in his desperate efforts to secure a face-savingly swift post-Brexit trade deal with the US. I’m sure it’ll be fine.

Quote ="Sal Paradise"Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?'" As a before and after: https://www.historyextra.com/period/20t ... care-free/ The national institute of care excellence in England (the SMC in Scotland and the AWMSG in Wales) does a massively better job of securing drugs at affordable prices than the Byzantine patchwork of approaches in the US. While I don’t agree with their America First solution, here is a rare example of the Trump administration accurately identifying a problem. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pay-drugs/ As the US Health and Human Services Secretary says, ‘the reason they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialized system.’ It’s a key area in which Liam Fox will need to stand strong in his desperate efforts to secure a face-savingly swift post-Brexit trade deal with the US. I’m sure it’ll be fine.