Well, yes, but it's beside the point. Nobody will ever eliminate dickkheads, this is not a reason for not trying. We simply do not throw enough resources at dickkhead elimination, and instead (as others have pointed out) the motor-insurance-premium-payer and the taxpayer between them end up paying a multi-billion pound bill.


This is not the way I look at it. I would never claim to be a great driver, because for one thing, having been trained in advanced driving and spending every mile on the road putting what you've learned into practice only highlights to you how hazardous the roads are, and how easy it is to come to grief even if technically you have done nothing wrong. I would however strongly claim to be a better driver than most, simply because as a result of advanced driving training and actively trying to put those techniques into place every journey means that I know I am consciously actively looking for things which I know most other road users are not, and I am actively trying to concentrate not just on the few yards of tarmac ahead of me but the whole of the environment, which again I know most other drivers are not.

This does not make me "a great driver" but it does make me better than any driver who is not doing these things, which is, sadly, the majority. OTOH, any driver who did the same training, and wanted to learn and put into practice exactly the same techniques, could do so. So to me, being a driver as good as I am is not because there is anything special about me, anybody could potentially do it, they (a) just need to want to do it and (b) be properly trained in how to do it.

As an example yesterday evening I was outside a bus lane, and at the end of the bus lane I started to drift over to the left hand lane. From the other direction there was a motorcycle which was on the centre white line, wanting to turn right, into a minor road on my left. As I moved out of the right hand lane I realised that an idiot ( a young lass driving a BMW saloon as it turned out) had decided to put her foot down and pull around me, heading for the right turn lane at the approaching lights. This meant she was straddling the white line, was accelerating, and was going to take the motorcyclist out. So I decided to brake as sharply as I dare without actually standing on the brakes, with no time to check whether the vehicle behind was too close as I felt I had no choice but to give the poor basstard on the bike a chance, he shot forward in front of me and the silly bitch in the Beemer missed his back end by inches as she sailed past.

The person behind me was thankfully paying attention and stopped behind me no problem. I had weighed up the alternatives though and preferred the prospect of a bent back bumper to a mangled motorcyclist.

Miss deBeemer then came to a halt about 30 yards down the road in the right turn queue. I slowly drove forward and wound my window down and had a chat. She was oblivious. She had no idea there had ever been a motorcyclist even in existence and was having none of it at all.

I would suggest that any of the people on this thread that take their driving seriously could have equally detected and thus avoided this accident-waiting-to-happen. It is only a question of paying attention to what is happening around you and driving on the basis that there are thousands of idiots all around you so you need to keep an eye out for them.

She could have done an advanced course and if she had been paying attention to the road ahead, and actively thinking about what she was doing, we would never have had this situation. In her case, as she wasn't an archetypal boy racer dickkhead, it is a prime example of a driver not up to the job, but who [icould[/i have been easily trained to be up to the job. That would only leave the issue of whether she had the personal commitment to try to keep up to those standards, but there is no reason in principle why she shouldn't, and certainly could if she wanted to. If somebody showed her a video of what she had nearly done I expect she'd be mortified.

This is not a sexist comment but woman are the worst drivers, i say this from personal experience of being on the road for long periods in the past, Yes woman take less risks as a whole and seem to have less accidents but woman's awareness of their whole surroundings is frankly shocking, my wife is also a professional driver and completely agrees with this, she says woman don't cause accidents but you they do create traffic which causes problems that lead to accidents.

In all honesty I don't think there are any solutions that would be easy or cheap to implement.

There is nothing more infuriating than seeing someone cutting in or driving selfishly and dangerously because "they are so much better than everyone else and have no need to wait"

I would personally love it if there was some form of traffic officer at every junction or even cameras getting video evidence of dangerous driving which can then later be used against the perpetrator, People would atleast then know they are being watched and won't get away with it, But the logistics of it mean it could never happen without an absolute fortune being spent on the said officers. Always does my head in when you see a driver slow down and start driving sensibly as soon as a police car is around who 50 yards up the road was driving like an absolute maniac.

The smart boxes that have already been mentioned if made compulsory would give people a financial incentive to drive more safely but again, if someone can afford a car with a powerful engine, then the cost of their insurance isn't going to be enough to slow them down.

If only there was some form of Traffic Cop Super Hero.....




I actually think these courses are good, and are proven to change peoples attitudes to speeding. My step dad went on one, and It also changed his driving habits. It's just a shame that it takes someone having to be caught speeding in the first place, It surely can't be so hard to fit this sort of course in with the current test and highway code examination (which if its anything like when i did mine is a joke btw) that people have to go through already.


but what? but it is?....

I actually agree with you but It's an unfair generalisation.


there may be a lot of women who drive without any awareness and it is pretty shocking, but there's plenty of drivers out there who are not women who drive in exactly the same "own world" way. Now you undoubtedly have more experience of the roads than I do but statistically women can't be the worst drivers can they? otherwise they wouldn't have the low premiums that they have? My grandad is due to retake his test now because he is at the age where he needs to retake, and I am actually scared to get a lift in a car with him sometimes because of his slow reactions and "awareness" and understanding of whats going on around him.

Men's problems when driving is arrogance women's is awareness, i saw something which i can't find on my mobile internet relating to how men and women are wired up in the grey matter effecting the way the perceive the world around them when driving. In my eyes both are dangerous, obviously though me as a layman come across as sexist, i admit it does and although not everyone of either sex fall in to either of those problems it sits for vast swathes of drivers. Sometimes biology actually explains things that go against touchy PC language. If no white guy or woman has ever run under 10 seconds is that racist and sexist? It's something to do with spatial awareness.

We've also had Automated Incident Detection (AID) technology for many years now, although they tend only to be used in lane management schemes. The cameras simply work on a passive basis until a vehicle or person crosses a demarcation line, they then record the incident for any future use.

Maybe these could actually work better than speed cameras, if they were placed at known hazards

Where did i say anything about, people paying for extra lessons?
You can take so called advanced training that isn't expensive.

I would say one of the winners if people drove better would be the cost as cod'ead has rightly pointed out.

Yes they do.
Not a 100% certain of the cost. But i would bet its around the £25/£30 per hour mark.
I do my own sort of assessment. Its more a case of seeing what bad habits people have picked up and making sure they are driving nice and safe.
Most of that involves, getting people to leave the right amount of space from the car in front and working on awareness around them.
Something most drivers seem to have forgotten.

Quote ="Robbo"snip '" www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ivers.html

Quote ="Robbo"snip '" www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ivers.html

Dally will probably link to the Wail's take on it tomorrow: "SHIRTLIFTERS KILL MORE THAN HETEROSEXUALS"

Quote ="Horatio Yed"www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574402/Women-and-gay-men-are-worst-drivers.html'" Did you not believe me when I said I agreed with you?.. They may not be as good at navigating or have spacial awareness but does that define "Bad Driving"? It all depends on what you think bad driving is. I I had a choice of being on the road that is filled with women and one that is filled with men, whichever I chose I reckon I'd be just as likely to be involved in an accident, just the reason for either hyptothetical accident would be different. Either a woman not having a clue whats going on around her or a bloke driving aggressively and dangerously. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -well.html just to toss the coin the other way ....

Quote ="Horatio Yed"www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574402/Women-and-gay-men-are-worst-drivers.html'" Did you not believe me when I said I agreed with you?.. They may not be as good at navigating or have spacial awareness but does that define "Bad Driving"? It all depends on what you think bad driving is. I I had a choice of being on the road that is filled with women and one that is filled with men, whichever I chose I reckon I'd be just as likely to be involved in an accident, just the reason for either hyptothetical accident would be different. Either a woman not having a clue whats going on around her or a bloke driving aggressively and dangerously. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -well.html just to toss the coin the other way ....

I'm not really on anyone's side here just that males and females have different strengths and weaknesses, and i've been involved in 5 accidents in my life of which 4 were down to women and 1 was down to my leaf spring snapping

Was it a female spring or a male one

I'm not either, Just putting a balanced argument across before any women read this and start accusing us of being sexist pigs

I wouldn't disagree with that, that's why I said [irelatively[/i decent. As in, I consider myself good in comparison to the many idiots on the road, but by no means one of the best. I know I occasionally make some mistakes (or at least begin to before correcting myself), but if I didn't think this way I fear I'd make more by believing I could never be in or place others in danger, which is simply not true of anyone. That's the 'I'm a great driver' belief I think is dangerous.

I was about to post something similar in response to your previous post. My wife refers to a lot of women drivers as 'going around in a bubble'. I wouldn't like to say either gender are better/worse drivers than the other, as I've known/experienced good and bad of both in roughly equal measure. I do agree though that the form of bad driving often seems to follow the patterns you say, bad women drivers seem to have less spatial and road awareness (BTW, how often has anyone on here been let out at a junction by a lady driver? Is it just me they leave sitting there?), bad male drivers think they can deal with anything that comes their way and that their judgement is perfect at all times, hence they drive more recklessly.

TBH the picture caption is bordering on that standard: Be afraid: Women or gay men could be behind the wheel of any car

Im glad we have the 'big brother' technology we have these days for keeping an eye on ours.Our tracking system is a godsend at times. And the Tachomasters too

I was speaking to some of the traffic management guys(Put out cones, signs etc) on the M25 amongst other roads in London. I said what are the dangers to you-Answer-the Africans on the road- That was there honest answer.

They sound like right pricks.

Had the M25 morphed into the African Veldt?

What were the police doing, allowing these renegade bands of Africans roam free among the country's busiest motorway?

Were they white, coloured or black African?

How did they know they were African?

Did you not question any of this or do you only converse with people who have similar views to your own?

Superb, sexism and now racism it's bigot bingo in here!

I've posted this before now: one of my bosses is Indian, and he openly states that in his opinion, Indians and Pakistanis, and other overseas drivers, are the worst drivers in the UK.

His reasoning is that the driving culture over there is completely different - rules and laws are more of a weak guideline and driver are less disciplined, more foolhardy, less generous, and often take risks. I've driven in many countries and have found that to be true in several.

Any reason why drivers from African countries (and others) don't apply to this? I know my driving is educated and tailored to British laws and British road culture, which is actually very disciplined and regimented, but someone from overseas wouldn't know any of that and a driving culture from say, Mogadishu or Mumbai or Cairo, could be disruptive and possibly dangerous on British roads amongst British drivers.

Frankly, if you think a driver from, say, Eritrea, would adapt to British roads immediately and wouldn't possibly be more of a risk that a home-grown road-educated driver, you're a bit daft.

No, it's just bollox. JFG Lemaitre and Woronin, and the women's world record is 10.49 by FloJo. She is out on her own, and the next fastest ever was 10.64 but there are 2 white women in the Top 10 with 10.76 and 10.77.

HTH