Thats the point, its so underfunded that a lot of people can't even register with an NHs dentist so have no option but to clog up A&E. Tories are starving the NHS so the idea of privatisation becomes appealing and they can all profit from the subsequent share rises

I care not for the American presidents vote as I'm not American and can't vote. Yes whilst it has an effect wider reaching than America I also respect that a guy from North Dakota or Kansas has the right to vote for what he feels will help him, not some upset folk from Yorkshire. The sulking in the UK about him is really cringeworthy.

Actually voted remain but I respected and understood the leavers view and was embarrassed by again the sulking post vote by the remainers.

I didn't want it to say anything, you didn't actually quote all of your rant when you replied to me

The implication being that there are many more with disabilities who don't [iwant[/i to work, not because they can't.

If you ever had a serious, debilitating illness you would know how embarassing that statement is.

What I said was how many people who claim disability genuinely cannot work? I would suggest it is closer to the 1m than it is to 3m.

I had significant mental issues following the death of my brother these went on for over 30 years until I had some cognitive treatment - It was suggested I could register as disabled due to severe depression. I didn't and have lived with it and worked around it. Not sure if that counts as an illness or a condition but you don't know anything about me so as I said get off you high horse.

That comes to the very heart of the argument for me:

1. What do we want the NHS to provide - basic healthcare that covers critical illnesses/conditions e.g. Child birth, A&E, general surgery but excludes the likes of dental, IVF, certain elements of cosmetic surgery, gender reassignment, incredibly expensive cancer treatments

2. All of the above

I disagree that the Tories are trying to force people down the private route - private dental care has been around since the 70s. I think the Tories are genuinely trying to say what do you want higher personal taxation and more money in the NHS. There doesn't appear to be an appetite for increases in personal taxation e.g. increases in NI to fund the NHS - although the Tories have left their manifesto vague in that area

Neither Labour or Tories have an adequate policy for funding the NHS. Labour will simply spend all the extra money on increasing salaries so the service will just be run by better paid staff - that is what happened last time Labour pumped a load of money into the NHS.

Labour tax and spend numbers simply don't add - the idea that you get the public sector in line with the rest of Europe but the only people who are going to fund it are the well off and business doesn't stack up. In Europe where they have a public sector in line with Labour's aspirations personal taxation is on a much higher level. Business needs to generate certain returns with most business making less than 10% net profit increasing CT by 8% can only be funded by higher prices so this is a very regressive way of increasing the tax take because it impacts everyone.

All that will happen is the tax take for CT with drop and that will have to come from somewhere - personal taxation across the board will have to rise to fund the 70bn of additional spending that Labour are committed to.

The biggest problem for Mrs May and the Tories, is that they clearly wan to cut all public services.
Their attempts to cut benefits for the disabled and aren't willing to make any commitment to pay public sector workers more than 1%, whilst at the same time, promising tax cuts to the better off AND accepting a 10% pay rise for themselves (I know the last increase was lower but, the point still stands).
They have had the worst election campaign in living memory, indeed, their representative on Newsnight, couldn't sight a worse campaign by any party, EVER and this has let Labour off the hook and may well lead to a hung parliament and this is when thing will become interesting.

IF there is an unofficial coalition between say, the Lib Dems, SNP and Labour, what will happen to Brexit and Scottish independence ?

THe SNP and Libdems would certainly push for remaining in the EU single market but, ironically, this would remove the need for a second independence referendum in Scotland.

THe vote tomorrow should be interesting and if Corbyn can mobilise the apathetic young voters, anything could happen.

It managed due to the dedication & brilliance of our nurses, doctors, porters & admin staff within the NHS. They come in at the drop of a hat despite it being their time off. These are for the most part relatively poorly paid who have barely had a wage rise in 7 years. I know a lot of people working in health & social services; every one of them is thoroughly depressed at the state of it.
No matter how hard they work they are never going to be financially rich. But at least they can look in the mirror or tell their kids they tried to improve the lot of those less fortunate.

And you obviously don't know anything about the current system, for example there hasn't been a "register" for the disabled for many years, no high horse for me.

Those of us that have been going through it for 7 years (yes we are regularly "assessed" if you can call it that), know that disability benefits have been designed to save money ie get as many people off as possible, Esther McVey dropped that clanger (cutting 20% off DLA/PIP) years ago. They failed with me.

Sorry about the loss of your brother, maybe you should have accepted more help disability wise then you may understand what you are talking about.

I would agree May has been a disaster - only know have we seen Boris where are the rest of the front bench? The Tories performance is bordering on that of Michael Foot. Corbyn has had large rallies but only in very safe Labour seats.

It could be close so that will be interesting to see - if the Tories still have an overall majority that has to be the end for Corbyn because if he could defeat such an a lack lustre opposition then he is done. It is almost as if the Tories don't want to be responsible for the Brexit deal so would be happy to lose - I can't see any other reason for their abject performance. Labour's spending plans simply don't add - that is an easy target but the Tories haven't gone there - its bizarre. Maybe the polls are telling them they have it in the bag but its she/they have been terrible

If she gets in again with a similar majority it's a long way from what she was aiming for when she called the election and a long way from the mandate she needs.

She'll end up a hostage to the whims of the right of the party and the right of the press just like her predecessor, and all that before the biggest negotiation this country has had for 40+ years.

It's a mess.

In a move that the right wing pres would have exploded about, May cynically announced a general election that the Tories would have had months to plan. The opposition parties have had a couple of weeks to put together & finalise their plans. Even then the Tories have not had the bottle or honesty to put a costed plan together. They have been a disaster. There was an argument that the election should be postponed after Manchester & London. I think that extended time would have been the end for the Tories as their campaign unfolded & Corbyn's star continued to rise.

[url=http://theconversation.com/manifesto-check-do-labour-party-tax-and-spending-plans-add-up-77883Not quite as straightforward as that[/url - they do, with some assumptions about tax take and economic growth.

It's interesting that the proposed CT rate would still see it below the level of 2010, and it would still be amongst the lowest in the G20.

We can agree however that the Tory campaign has been an absolute shambles; if it isn't being thrown deliberately to try to somehow create the conditions to reverse the disastrous Brexit result, then it's been a colossal miscalculation on their behalf. It seems they thought their position was so utterly unassailable, that they could launch a vague, uncosted manifesto, and have their campaign fronted by someone with the charisma of a wet fish, robotically repeating banal catchphrases whilst refusing to engage with the electorate, and that would be sufficient. So woeful has Mrs May's performance been, that Rudd and Johnson are already jockeying for the job that will be available if she loses and is ousted - which has become a very real possibility thanks to an unexpectedly brilliant campaign from Labour; Diane Abbot aside of course - who has today been removed from campaigning due to 'ill health,' which is handy, because she's consistently been the weakest link.

Even the IFS who have destroyed the Tories plans have suggested Labour's spending plans are not deliverable - so its which expert you believe?

Labour have looked better because the Tories have been so bad - its easy to go increase spending on NHS, Schools, tuition fees etc. more difficult to achieve - time will tell if the electorate actually believe Corbyn is credible.

I expect Labour to win be quite a wide margin 20/30 seats overall majority - I just can't see how the Tories can get across the line.

The Tory campaign may be lacklustre and negative but it'll be just enough. Remember in Scotland the "yes" campaign had all the positivity yet fell short by 10%.

Why would we delay the election??

The Torys plans were costed in the Autumn statement or have you forgotten that occurred. They aren't going to take another path. There stall is set, clear and transparent.

Much as I dont like the guy, IF Corbyn gets anywhere close in this election, he will stay in charge.
Despite his lack of popularity in the media, the political campaign run by Labour, from 20 points back in the polls has been excellent and because of this Corbyn will stay.
He could well say tht, if you had backed him all along, Labour would have won the election and this may be true. Although, if the Tories hadn't taken the electorate for granted, trying to be everything to everybody, they should have cleane up, with a substantially increased majority.

Regarding Brexit (and I know there is a separate thread), everything is still looking like the UK will be squeezed by the other EU members and far from the "free access", which was spouted by the leave campaign, it seems clear that we will have to either pay a substantial figure or, possibly be left on WTO terms.
Despite all of May's tough talk, its becoming blatantly obvious that she is out of her depth both at home and on the international stage and even if the Tories regain power, I dont see her lasting too long at the helm. Again, rather ironic when you consider her excuse for calling an election.

Nothing Ironic about it, this is just your negative look forward based on negative thinking. There is nothing balanced about that post.

The Labour campaign is easy let's just give everyone everything its a question of credibility - its easy to make promises you know you will never have to deliver - the Lib Dems did it for years.

I completely agree the last paragraph - Gove has a lot to answer for - Boris would have won and he is on a different planet to May and he would have been more than a match for Corbyn.

Brexit has a long way to run and I doubt we will end up with WTO trading terms but I also doubt we will pay a huge bill just to sit at the table. The EU needs our money and that is our strongest bargaining tool. However I do wonder if May has lost her bottle for the fight.

Does it, it's no doubt useful, but I honestly have no idea who will suffer the most. From what I have read;
The £230 billion exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth about 12% of the value of the British economy in 2015. It’s been at around 13-15% over the past decade.
Exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about 3-4% of the size of the remaining EU’s economy in 2015.

If Corby gets into Downing Street then we're the creak, no paddle, no canoe, no maps and a deluge of biblical proportions to wash us down stream.

Over 12 months on from the referendum, not one politician has been able to tell us that we will be any better off, in fact the opposite is true.
Yes, we will regain control of our borders and have the final say on our law making and if that's enough for you then great, crack on, really.

It is not negative to say that our trade with the EU is less certain than before the referendum, it's plain fact. But, if that makes you feel better, great.

That is just utter nonsense.
Where was the "dementia tax" in the Autumn statement.
Where was the mention of increased policing in the Autumn statement
Where were the reductions to pensioners benefits in the Autumn statement.

Come on, have some sense and dont talk such utter crap.

As opposed to no agreement with the E.U, no money for state schools, continued privatisation of the N.H.S. further wage freezers for low earners, & on & on.

Enjoy the next five (years) & prey that none of the above affect you.

Did the Tories say they were increasing counter intelligence by 1900?

The UK is Germany's biggest trading partner so I doubt that will be overlooked in negotiations. There doesn't seem a rush to fill the funding gap left by the UK leaving the EU.

There is a 60bn gap between what we import compared to what we export so that will need sorting 290bn is a big customer to lose?