Israel has little future for the following reasons:

1. Poorer countries are getting richer. Israel is surrounded by larger, more populus countries that will get richer at some point. They will then be able to afford equivalent weapons and Israel will reap the backlash to its aggressive defensive strategy.

2. Its great protector, the US, will soon have little interest in the region and therefore Israel. I say that because the US is scheduled to become self-sufficient in energy in the next few years and indeed a net exporter. It will therefore have no real strategic interest in the Middle East and it will be China who will need the oil and so be the big power fiddling about in the region. So, unless Israel can convince China that it is their interests to look after it then it's finished. Incidentally, this shift will stuff the UK who seems to be exposed with its complete lack of energy policy. Currently it tags along with the USA to secure supplies. When the USA is no longer interested in the Middle East that will leave us even more exposed.

Agree to a point with no.1, totally disagree with no.2. If the US were worried about oil supplies then it would make more sense not to back Israel instead of antagonising oil exporting Arab countries. If your unlikely scenario of US energy self-sufficiency were to come true anytime soon then it actually makes it easier for the US to back Israel, not harder.

My scenario is not unlikely. It's based on an industry report reported in the press within the last week or so. In my opinion, support for Israel is primarily about keeping the region reasnoably stable. In fact, taking my hypothesis further the US in future may be more interested in destabilising the region in order to undermine Chinese interests in the region.

The report by the IEA states that if targets of increased efficiency in cars are met, that US energy demand should fall and might be nearly energy self-sufficient by 2035.
The US car sector are notoriously bad for fuel efficiency and unlikely to meet the targets.
I believe your hypothesis is flawed. As I said, if the US wanted to guarantee oil supplies they could more easily do so by backing Palestine instead of Israel. I think the US backing of Israel has sod all to do with oil and far more to do with the Jewish lobby in the US.

What an utter load of tripe. Are you some spotty teenager or something? Jeebus wept - I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

so you cannot argue with it just make insults. Go on sit on the fence and say isnt it all a tragedy whilst the Israelis continue their land grab of Palestinian land and impose a collective punishment on the Palestinians in Gaza.


Thank fook we did not have to rely on people like you in WW2

If you can't understand that fault doesnt alway lie with only one side, if you can't fathom that it is possible for both sides to be wrong, and both sides to be right, if you cant see that such an entrenched standpoint forces a violent conclusion then you are an idiot. I would rather be a political coward, able to see both sides of an argument, than an arrogant, violent, bully, so sure of their righteousness that they can't see anything but their own viewpoint.



It is possible, that what you believed in was wrong, it is possible that the belief you were fighting for was wrong. It is perfectly possible that the ideology you were trying to force on someone else, was wrong. It is perfectly possible, that from someone elses point of view, you were the violent aggressor.

There is and has to be violent conclusion because ONE side has refused to negotiate and compromise for the last 70 years. Look at the map posted by Codead on page 2 of this thread for the facts.

The Palestinians feel they have NO option, even if they lose. They have nothing really left to lose. Maybe the last ones do not want to wait until they are loaded on to the cattle trucks and deported to Lebanon and Jordan and Egypt. Maybe they want to go out with a fight.

In these circumstances seeing both sides and sitting on the fence is just allowing the Isreali's to get away with it.

You have to take a side or you are a political coward.

I would love to have seen you in the Warsaw ghetto or the Warsaw uprising saying, " now i can see both sides but should we not just stop the fighting because the civilians are getting caught up in it".


Go on you just sit there wringing your hands and shaking your head whilst the Palestinians get shafted again.

I can't argue with someone like you who appears to live in a fantasy world and is incapable of rational thought on this topic.

You do realise this isnt batman movie dont you? You may 6 years old and still think the world can be divided into goodies and baddies. Im not. I feel for you that you see the acceptance of nuance or the complexity of such an issue as cowardice, it must be horrible to live in a world so binary.

You'd think the Israelis would wise up and start bandying the [iinsurgent[/i word around a bit more often.

It's worked bloody wonders during the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

I reckon we'll hear more of it soon. Recent statements from them make me think this might all be an opening gambit for a strike on Iran.

Bloody right too.
Mahmoud Ahmahinejad is a crazed lunatic who regularly bites the heads off jellybabies.
We'll all be a lot safer when he's dragged out of a concrete drainage pipe, and beaten to death, or alternatively, witness some mobile phone footage of a noose round his head.
Restorative justice [iis[/i the way forward after all.

Anyways, where's Tone when you need him?
Has he given up on his middle-east peace keeping envoyism?





You couldn't make it fooking up.

TBF he's done a cracking job. There must be at least, oh, well . . . shhit, let me think . . . there must be [ione[/i country [isomewhere[/i in the Middle East where he's envoyed peace? Hasn't he?

He's envoyed it everywhere. Nobody's buying what he's selling though.

To be fair, Imadinnerjacket [iis[/i a bit of a loon. Far more dangerous to his own citizens than to anyone outside Iran though.

Whole area is just a loon factory, there is no solution, the problems will continue until eventually one of the loonies launchs a nuclear or chemical attack on Isreal, they will then press the button and take them all with them

[iI know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.[/i

Albert Einstein.

Why does Kosh continue to argue in opposition to [url=http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=norman%20finkelstein%20the%20history%20of&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsgiGyITn6Qc&ei=YmumUOusBYjC0QXyjIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNHj1U6MG1URsPkjMNlxF-whkDNYVAThe Facts[/url?

Would he be claiming parity of guilt for the Jews of the Warsaw uprising because they chucked a few bottles at the full might of the German army?

Hamas are the ones responsible for this all flaring up again by continually firing rockets into Israel who have every right to hit back.

All the 'right on' liberal whining from the Hamas apologists that we are getting also forgets the fact that Hamas are a terrorist organisation who rule the Palestinian people through fear and intimidation.

Quote ="Wolfieseviltwin"Hamas are the ones responsible for this all flaring up again by continually firing rockets into Israel who have every right to hit back. All the 'right on' liberal whining from the Hamas apologists that we are getting also forgets the fact that Hamas are a terrorist organisation who rule the Palestinian people through fear and intimidation.'" But, is that the whole truth? 30 odd prominent British Jews seem to think otherwise: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... g-guernica

Quote ="Wolfieseviltwin"Hamas are the ones responsible for this all flaring up again by continually firing rockets into Israel who have every right to hit back. All the 'right on' liberal whining from the Hamas apologists that we are getting also forgets the fact that Hamas are a terrorist organisation who rule the Palestinian people through fear and intimidation.'" But, is that the whole truth? 30 odd prominent British Jews seem to think otherwise: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... g-guernica

Finkelstein is a self hating Jew Mugwump and so is any Jew who does not go along with eveything Israel does.

Is Israels present operations in retaliation for rocket attacks or is it to put pressure on the palestinian president mahmood's request to be accepted as full members of the UN?

Parity of guilt FFS? It isn’t a competition

Are you for real?

Finkelstein simply tells it like it is, without allowing his Jewishness to get in the way of clear and logical thought.
The Zionist expansion across Palestine is almost complete, they are (or think they are) in the tricky end-game.


Neither, it's all part of nicking Palestine for themselves because God promised it to them.
Trouble is, there are enough "Christians" in the US bible belt who literally believe that the second coming of the messiah can't happen until the Jews are returned to Palestine. (See Revelations)
As Finkelstein says, it's not dissimilar to the way that Native Americans were pushed into reservations by "settlers".