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International Chairman | 17160 | No Team Selected |
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| Meanwhile in the real world the Tories, not content with controlling 90% of the written media, are putting more pressure on the BBC, accusing them of left wing bias & effectively blaming them for the Tories pathetic performance at last night's leaders' debate.
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Moderator | 3221 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Quote ="bren2k"Ignore all the evidence - take on the views of the right wing media by osmosis - and repeat it ad infinitum until you convince yourself its true. Meanwhile, the NHS is collapsing, we're hurtling towards severing ties with our biggest trading partner, the national debt has gone up by 700 trillion, and more and more people are in poverty. But you're alright - thanks in large part to a better opportunities created by a kinder politics - so balls to everyone else.
I sometimes wish I saw life in as facile and deliberately ill-informed way as people like you; I'd probably sleep better.'"
Ignore all the comebacks, take on all the views of the lefty media and continually just keep saying the rich are too rich, make them pay for everything!
I agree that all those things do need funding, no doubt about it, but sick of hearing "tax the rich" as the only option.
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International Chairman | 17160 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote ="Mike Oxlong"Ignore all the comebacks, take on all the views of the lefty media and continually just keep saying the rich are too rich, make them pay for everything!'"
Who is "all the lefty media"?
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| Quote ="Mike Oxlong"Ignore all the comebacks, take on all the views of the lefty media and continually just keep saying the rich are too rich, make them pay for everything!
I agree that all those things do need funding, no doubt about it, but sick of hearing "tax the rich" as the only option.'"
Don't worry, if May wins the GE then she will just force NHS trusts to sell their assets. It seems to be the way of Tory Governments to sell everything off so they can say 'Look we have a stable economy'
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International Star | 17984 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote ="Mike Oxlong"Ignore all the comebacks, take on all the views of the lefty media and continually just keep saying the rich are too rich, make them pay for everything!
I agree that all those things do need funding, no doubt about it, but sick of hearing "tax the rich" as the only option.'"
It's a better tag line than "strong and stable" which is Teresa May's dream and has sod all to do with her government or the country's economy.
Of course, it's far easier to say that you will tax the top 5%, rather than risk upsetting the other 95% and tracking down the tax avoiders at the top of the pile will pay greater dividends than trying to cut a few quid from the disabled and the pensioners.
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Club Captain | 170 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2017 | 8 years | |
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| " I found it particularly amusing when Angus Robertson fired off at the PM for being nowhere to be seen when his esteemed leader was MIA too!"
Robertson is leader of the SNP in the UK Parliament. Sturgeon and the Scottish Parliament are not up for election until 2021. So why would a Leader not involved in an election be expected to take part in this election debate?
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International Chairman | 4961 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote ="Mike Oxlong"Ignore all the comebacks, take on all the views of the lefty media and continually just keep saying the rich are too rich, make them pay for everything!
I agree that all those things do need funding, no doubt about it, but sick of hearing "tax the rich" as the only option.'"
It's not the only option, other plans are to renationalise profit making enterprises instead of selling them off while our chums and partners buy shares in the companies that bought them!
All of the austerity budgets have been targeted at the poor. Service cuts, health cuts, schools, social care, police - all cut by address the deficit caused by greedy bankers. We have paid a heavy price for their greed... time for them to pay a bit back.
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International Chairman | 18064 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"It's not the only option, other plans are to renationalise profit making enterprises instead of selling them off while our chums and partners buy shares in the companies that bought them!
All of the austerity budgets have been targeted at the poor. Service cuts, health cuts, schools, social care, police - all cut by address the deficit caused by greedy bankers. We have paid a heavy price for their greed... time for them to pay a bit back.'"
One thing is for certain anything that is renationalised will run at greater deficit than it does now. IIRC most of us had an option to buy shares in many of the industries the Tories de-nationalised.
The government can only cut the costs it manages - it hardly say to Barclays this is how you must run your company - that is not how it works as much as you would like it to. ![Very Happy icon_biggrin.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_biggrin.gif)
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International Chairman | 4961 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"One thing is for certain anything that is renationalised will run at greater deficit than it does now. IIRC most of us had an option to buy shares in many of the industries the Tories de-nationalised.
The government can only cut the costs it manages - it hardly say to Barclays this is how you must run your company - that is not how it works as much as you would like it to.
'"
Yeah but where are those shares now? Much like the houses they generously allowed us to buy, they are now falling into the hands of wealthy private investors.
The fact is, our railways are the most expensive for the worst service in Europe. Every other nation has got a state owned transport company which makes huge profits off the UK market, in order to subsidise their own tickets at home.
What a farce the other deregulated sectors are too. There is no competition in the water market, the energy companies rip us off and collude with each other to fix ever higher prices.
Time to take back control of our infrastructure in my opinion.
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International Chairman | 18064 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"Yeah but where are those shares now? Much like the houses they generously allowed us to buy, they are now falling into the hands of wealthy private investors.
The fact is, our railways are the most expensive for the worst service in Europe. Every other nation has got a state owned transport company which makes huge profits off the UK market, in order to subsidise their own tickets at home.
What a farce the other deregulated sectors are too. There is no competition in the water market, the energy companies rip us off and collude with each other to fix ever higher prices.
Time to take back control of our infrastructure in my opinion.'"
Absolutely if you want to pay more for your energy, trains and water - but that is exactly what you want - why pay current taxation when it would be good for some to pay more as long as it isn't me!!
It will be you - but that is what you want!!
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International Chairman | 18064 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="DGM"Bren Abbott
Top points made as usual. For people like Sal who lives in a bubble where every person has the same opportunity as the next person, and neither he nor anyone he knows is struggling, I can see why he'd be attracted to Tory ideas. It comes down to putting a few extra quid in his pocket above helping those in our society who struggle the most.
A well funded NHS, education, infrastructure, policing etc all help create an environment whereby entrepreneurs and big business can flourish in this country. They're able to take advantage of an educated, talented & skilful workforce, a healthy workforce, infrastructure meaning they can attract talent from a wider area, a safer and stable country that's adequately policed. That's the vital bit he simply can't grasp.'"
I don't doubt some people are struggling but does that mean that those have worked hard should be less well off to support that? What is the incentive to work hard to succeed?
All our public services are well funded - education is delivering better results than for many years so the talented are being encouraged - do you think putting 10bn into education will give you enhanced results?
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International Chairman | 14845 | No Team Selected |
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| The Tories like to say how strong London's economy is and how great they are at managing the economy. Interesting then that in the place that is the beacon for their policies that the latest opinion poll shows that Labour has opened up a 17 per cent lead over them (Labour on a huge 50 per cent) and Corbyn is now seen as better prospective PM than May. If that's what the main beneficaries of the Tory economic miracle (!) I think those in the rest of the country who buy into the Tories bright new economic future for all need to rethink.
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Club Owner | 17226 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"I don't doubt some people are struggling but does that mean that those have worked hard should be less well off to support that? What is the incentive to work hard to succeed?'" Because people are not 'struggling' just because they haven't worked hard enough in life, and to suggest that is the case is at best idiotic and at worst utterly deplorable.
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Player Coach | 15521 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="headhunter"Because people are not 'struggling' just because they haven't worked hard enough in life, and to suggest that is the case is at best idiotic and at worst utterly deplorable.'"
Indeed - the Tory line is that anyone who isn't well off is feckless and lazy; which of course completely ignores those people who are struggling due to illness, disability or indeed the fact that they do work their ar5es off, in a job which doesn't pay them enough to live a decent life. It's a cruel and mean way to run an economy, and I'd be quite happy to sacrifice some of my income to rebalance that - the important thing of course is that the super-rich and huge corporations do the same, and aren't allowed to dodge their way out of it, or make sweetheart deals with HMRC because of their close ties to the establishment elite.
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Moderator | 32069 | No Team Selected |
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| "The undeserving poor" a convenient scapegoat and philosophy for the selfish since the 19th century.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Absolutely if you want to pay more for your energy, trains and water - but that is exactly what you want - why pay current taxation when it would be good for some to pay more as long as it isn't me!!
It will be you - but that is what you want!!'"
What tosh.
Using trains as an example - the Tories object to state ownership it seems, but only when that state is the UK; our railways are owned by Dutch, German, Italian & Chinese state owned companies, and pay hundreds of millions in dividends to their owners every year - dividends generated by £billions of UK government subsidies, at cost to the UK taxpayer - and of course commuters, who suffer the most expensive and least efficient train service in Europe.
This stuff can be fixed.
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| The reason why these industries were privatised is nothing to do with efficiency, cost or service. It was purely to make national strikes in the industries less likely. That's also why they are messing about with schools and the NHS. All these industries would be more efficient, cheaper to taxpayers / consumers and provide better service if renationalised.
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International Chairman | 18064 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="bren2k"What tosh.
Using trains as an example - the Tories object to state ownership it seems, but only when that state is the UK; our railways are owned by Dutch, German, Italian & Chinese state owned companies, and pay hundreds of millions in dividends to their owners every year - dividends generated by £billions of UK government subsidies, at cost to the UK taxpayer - and of course commuters, who suffer the most expensive and least efficient train service in Europe.
This stuff can be fixed.'"
So Corbyn is going to cap rail fares to start is that going to make the state owned railways more or less profitable?
Trenitalia makes about 3% net profit 190m on £5bn worldwide hardly hundreds of millions, same goes for Abellio, Go ahead made 57m of which 35% goes to the French etc
These are marginal businesses not cash cows that will swell the government coffers - it wouldn't take a lot for these to be loss making.
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| Quote ="Dally"The reason why these industries were privatised is nothing to do with efficiency, cost or service. It was purely to make national strikes in the industries less likely. That's also why they are messing about with schools and the NHS. All these industries would be more efficient, cheaper to taxpayers / consumers and provide better service if renationalised.'"
Delusional in word.
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International Star | 1906 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Dally"The reason why these industries were privatised is nothing to do with efficiency, cost or service. It was purely to make national strikes in the industries less likely. That's also why they are messing about with schools and the NHS. All these industries would be more efficient, cheaper to taxpayers / consumers and provide better service if renationalised.'"
You are hoping that they would be more efficient, it's doubtful that they would be more efficient. Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the company which is now British telecom.
To have a land line telephone you had to wait at least three months and more in some cases. The main reason was lack of competition.
The government poured millions into state owned industries, most of it wasted. Don't think for one moment I am ignoring the private sector as they can be just as incompetent. Step forward British airways and take a bow. But the big difference is by the nature of competition ,companies have to perform or they go bust .
If you look at the fierce competition between the low cost airlines, Ryan air , jet 2 , etc etc if you time your booking correctly you can fly across Europe cheaply.
I am in the process of contacting sky as I think I am paying too much. Last time rang them up I pointed out to them how much I was paying for Netflix and amazon compared with sky. I received a substantial reduction in costs for a year. If I don't get the same response with sky I will close the account.
Yet with the bbc which is deteriorating year on year, I have to pay my license fee whether I like it or not.
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| £200 billion was quoted today to nationalise Railways, water etc etc
Where the hell is that coming from!
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| Quote ="wire-quin"£200 billion was quoted today to nationalise Railways, water etc etc
Where the hell is that coming from!'"
Jeremy's magic money tree, all socialists have one. It's my dream that one day I may become the owner of one these wonderful items. Unfortunately I believe only socialists have access to the money tree.
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| Quote ="Backwoodsman"Jeremy's magic money tree'"
See how easy it is for Lynton Crosby to hypnotise some people; he coined this phrase 72 hours ago, politicians are ordered to repeat it as many times as possible in the media - and hey presto, it becomes an actual thing.
It's depressing.
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International Chairman | 4961 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"So Corbyn is going to cap rail fares to start is that going to make the state owned railways more or less profitable?
Trenitalia makes about 3% net profit 190m on £5bn worldwide hardly hundreds of millions, same goes for Abellio, Go ahead made 57m of which 35% goes to the French etc
These are marginal businesses not cash cows that will swell the government coffers - it wouldn't take a lot for these to be loss making.'"
See your arguments sound all very good and everything, but doesnt stack up to cursory research.
[urlhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalised-east-coast-rail-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html[/url
[urlhttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/12/rail-privatisation-dutch-and-german-companies-took-uk-for-ride[/url
As per usual the tories have sold off our assets for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy shareholder pals. While we are left with high prices, poor services and no control.
There is absolutely no reason that, managed properly, nationalised rail couldnt be a decent earner and we can then use that to operate franchises abroad. DB makes a fortune for the German Economy.
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