What is their fair share though? And why is it fair? Just because I've managed to get myself into a better position in life (as do others) why does that mean I have to contribute more in tax? I still do the same number of hours and same amount of work in a week, yet I bring home less money because the government deem it so??

We all benefit from paying tax.

I agree, but why should I have to pay more tax because I earn more money??

No you misunderstand my point. Read it again.

I was talking about learning the lessons from dealing with the incident at Hillsborough.

The thing for me is you ignoring those that work in the private sector that haven't had a pay increase for years - I suppose that is their own stupid fault for having the audacity to not work for the government.

How have those receiving housing benefit lost out - if they have a house that is bigger than they need why the hell should the tax payers support that? Why should I as a tax payer support housing benefit in London that is higher than some people's salaries?

Putting a cap on benefits at £20k is that such an outrageous proposal - how much do you have to earn to net £20k?

Why should we have child support? If you decide to have children surely that is your choice and your responsibility to support them not the role of the state?

The elderly have a locked in increase in benefits - the idea they can take your house is barmy who ever thought that was a good idea is delusional you will just end up a branch of Dignitas in every town.

etc.

What affronts me is that hard working people who have scaled the ladder through hard graft are vilified and expected to support all those who simply don't have the drive or desire. The top 1/2% already contribute c30% of the whole income tax take - how much more should they pay? Why can't we have a flat rate for everybody those that earn more will pay more 20% of £200k is a lot more than 20% of £20k.

Of course its unfair that those who are successful continue to do so and are rewarded accordingly - what a very sad point of view. All you want to do is to crush ambition where is the wealth generation/innovation/progress going to come from in your "I don't give a flying fu ck" world?

There is no reasoning with hard core Socialists as long as they would be at the top of the food chain they really don't care about anyone else - this stuff about elderly, government employees, benefits is a smokescreen for avarice towards those that have worked really hard to make something of their life.

What lessons have they learned - their arrogance hasn't gone away and how they defend themselves from criticism - in that they have learnt nothing

As someone in the higher rate tax band & someone who has worked really hard since they left school at 15, over 40 years ago, currently successfully managing a £500m capital build programme, I am qualified to comment. The trouble with fascist, Daily Mail readers like yourself, is that you are only comfortable with stereotypes.

And you want to make sure that people at the bottom stay at the bottom just so you can enjoy the money you earn. Just remember its highly unlikely you got to where you are without standing on the back of some of the people you want to keep at the bottom. If there is no money for education due to people not paying their share then its tantamount to pulling up the drawbridge to the castle once you are safe inside.

And to second that - I grew up on a council estate in the Thatcher years, and going to uni wasn't even a consideration; I've worked since I left school and I now earn many times the national average, employ over 2000 people, and am in receipt of dividends from a company I part own.

So with another lefty stereotype busted - I say again - I am quite happy to pay more tax to support society as a whole, and strongly believe that it's time the inequality created and perpetuated by the right wing establishment was deconstructed in favour of collectivism, and actually giving a $h1t about everyone in society. Idealist? I'll take that.

ATEOTD I don't see Labour winning the election. However if they give the Tories a bloody nose and make them sit up and think about what they are doing rather than railroading through any policies they want, then to me, that is a small victory considering where Labour where at the beginning of the year.

I'm talking specifically about how they prepare for, respond to and recover from emergencies.

TBH a lot of people moaning about paying tax on here just come over as selfish.

TBH people moaning about tax saying higher earners should pay more just come over as lazy.

We only benefit if the tax collected is not wasted - efficient use of tax revenues is a good thing a glut of bloated public services is not.

What happened in the NHS when Labour increased funding through NI increases - staff got substantial pay increases and drug companies saw an opportunity to increase prices - that is what will happen again if Corbyn has his way.

And would they still think higher earners paying more tax was so great if they were higher earners themselves? I'm sure some will lie and say they'd still be happy with it. Just jealously with most that they don't have as much money as others.

Not at all - I came from a back to back house in Listerhills in Bradford so I have no objection to anyone working hard and enjoying the fruit of their labour - is it unreasonable that someone sacrifices early in their career, works hard/smart and gets outputs in line with their inputs?

It is also very likely that a number of people have benefited from working in teams I have managed and businesses that I have run.

This government is spending huge sums of money on education 86bn an increase of 1bn on the previous year. It has been pointed out that attainment appears to increasing - which seems to indicate it is about better practises rather than throwing money willy nilly?

Again this is my issue - just throwing money at a problem - Corbyn/Labour mantra isn't a long term strategy. Where is the manifesto is their anything about driving efficiences improving procesess etc? Then they would bite the hand that feeds the unions!!

Why? There is many a hard working poor person and many an idle rich person. Equating the 2 is more striver vs skiver nonsense

Why don't the government just decide how much we all need and let us have some pocket money - that is what you are driving towards IMO

Well, that is the main difference between the Tories and most of the other parties.

The default position of THe Conservatives is to allow people to keep all that they earn, without any regard for those that are unfortunate enough not to be in a position to do so.

Of course there are people who abuse the system, just as there are at the top of the pile wh abuse the system (some of whom defraud HMRC out of huge amounts.

Having moved away from trusting a doctors word that someone is unable to work, we now have another hoop for benefit claimants to jump through, just to prove that they are unfit for work.

Is the "fit for work assessment" really necessary ?

How do you suggest we fund the NHS, schools, Universities, police, armed forces, social care? We can cut it to the bone as the Tories are doing & have always done, resulting in the society we now have, or we can invest in it properly. If you want the former, vote Tory & you can be happy in your own selfish little world. If you think a caring society is one to aspire to then the only way is higher taxation for those who can afford it. Those on the UK average of £26k cannot afford it.

Some people just aren't lucky enough or have the same backing as you did to improve their lot in life. Whether that's because they don't have the support or because they simply aren't smart enough to realise opportunities. They may even have a medical condition which limits what they can do.

Also someone has to do the jobs that are low paid so you can get your groceries or latest gadget from Amazon cheap. Are you saying that anyone who does these jobs should not get help from the state to pay the exorbitant rents that private landlords(most who are in the 40p or 45p tax bracket) charge? To pay for these benefits, the money has to come from somewhere so why shouldn't the people who earn money off those on the lower end of the pay scale pay more for it?

With regards to Education Increasing funds means nothing if the amount of people who need to use our education system has increased. Its like spending £40 on a weekly food shop for 2 then only having an extra £10 added to that when the number of people you need to feed doubles and the price of the food increases.

You can talk about inefficiencies and improving processes all you want but that also takes money for someone to highlight them, plan the change and then implement the changes. To do all this with a real time cut in funding as well as maintain current levels of service(Actually they are expected to increase levels of service) is ridiculous and virtually impossible.

But hey, don't you worry about that. You get to keep more of the money you earn while depriving people the same opportunities you had.

Anybody could get where I am - I don't have a private or university education I just worked really hard to achieve - it is really that simple.

If people can't afford something is it really the job of the state to provide it? If the state didn't then businesses would have to - the question is are the benefits paid out to workers greater than the CT and NI - a tax on employing people - paid by businesses? I suspect not.

Those people running the public sector will already know where the savings can be made - if they don't they are in the wrong job. You don't need expensive consultants to identify savings you already have the people in the know i.e. the employees you just need to engage them. That is a typical Labour trait lets just throw money at it.

I don't mind paying my fair share but I don't its fair that business and the higher paid should be seen as a cash cow to fund inefficient public services.

Ignore all the evidence - take on the views of the right wing media by osmosis - and repeat it ad infinitum until you convince yourself its true. Meanwhile, the NHS is collapsing, we're hurtling towards severing ties with our biggest trading partner, the national debt has gone up by 700 trillion, and more and more people are in poverty. But you're alright - thanks in large part to a better opportunities created by a kinder politics - so balls to everyone else.

I sometimes wish I saw life in as facile and deliberately ill-informed way as people like you; I'd probably sleep better.

Bren Abbott



Top points made as usual. For people like Sal who lives in a bubble where every person has the same opportunity as the next person, and neither he nor anyone he knows is struggling, I can see why he'd be attracted to Tory ideas. It comes down to putting a few extra quid in his pocket above helping those in our society who struggle the most.

A well funded NHS, education, infrastructure, policing etc all help create an environment whereby entrepreneurs and big business can flourish in this country. They're able to take advantage of an educated, talented & skilful workforce, a healthy workforce, infrastructure meaning they can attract talent from a wider area, a safer and stable country that's adequately policed. That's the vital bit he simply can't grasp.