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| Quote ="cod'ead"
I have always had faith in the power of the ballot box, that faith is waning rapidly and I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing everyone of voting age could do on election day 2015 is stay at home. If nobody votes for any of these fookers, they may just get the message.'"
If voting changed anything they'd have outlawed it years ago. |
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| Quote ="Big Graeme"If voting changed anything they'd have outlawed it years ago.'"
Correct.
And if hard work was good for you, the rich would have it for themselves. |
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Austerity is not working.
Growth is at a standstill, forget the comforting notion that we have avoided a triple-dip ... if you take London out of the picture, the country is still in deep recession.
Where are your plans for growth Miliband?
If you have any, we aren't seeing them.
That's the big essential ... where is it ?
Frankly, presenting yourselves as "as $h1t as the Tories", won't get votes.
On the plus side, he is making the right noises about reducing the cost of housing benefit without punishing the recipients of it ... and reducing the cost of tax credits by making employers pay a living wage.
The Tories have made themselves virtually unelectable, so what do we see? Labour painting themselves blue.
Utterly crazy.
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Austerity is not working.
Growth is at a standstill, forget the comforting notion that we have avoided a triple-dip ... if you take London out of the picture, the country is still in deep recession.
Where are your plans for growth Miliband?
If you have any, we aren't seeing them.
That's the big essential ... where is it ?
Frankly, presenting yourselves as "as $h1t as the Tories", won't get votes.
On the plus side, he is making the right noises about reducing the cost of housing benefit without punishing the recipients of it ... and reducing the cost of tax credits by making employers pay a living wage.
The Tories have made themselves virtually unelectable, so what do we see? Labour painting themselves blue.
Utterly crazy.'"
Neo-liberalism is the orthodoxy and none of the three main parties appear to even realise that anything else exists.
I mentioned it before – so many of them studying exactly the same PPE course at exactly the same place, Oxford. It's one factor behind the total lack of ideas beyond the aforementioned orthodoxy. |
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Quote ="rover49"Just got back from visiting my mate and he has told me what has gone on and it seems that all they are trying to do is get people off benefits, no matter what. He told me that he sent them information via a web site and then was given an appointment to go for his assessment. When he arrived he was told to wait in a seating area and was kept waiting for nearly an hour in view of the reception. When he was called in he had to walk up a corridor, up a set of stairs and along another corridor. During the assessment he was told that he had answered four of the queries already, namely he could use a computer, site for up to an hour, walk the minimum distance required and climb a flight of stairs. He was given a pen to fill a questionnaire out which proved he could use his hands.
He needed 15 points to keep his benefit and was given a score of 'zero' and told his benefits would stop.
Being a fiesty 2@, he asked what jobs he could do and if they could get him a placement in a workplace environment, but was told it was nothing to do with them, they just assessed to a set criteria and he could appeal if he wished.
He has asked me to be a referee on his behalf as I have known him since he was in his twenties and to give evidence as to his deterioration over the recent years, but he was told not to hold out much hope as the decision is unlikely to be reversed.
He is willing to work (in fact would love to), but an assessment of an hour does not set the full story of his situation, I have been to see him on days he has not been able to get out of bed and is high on pain killers, like most people in his situation he has good and bad days and I doubt many employers would put up with the likely levels of time off he will need over a prolonged period.
Tory Britain 2013.'"
Tell him to appeal. Ask him to request his medical assesment and see what exactly he scored zero points on. What you say above is not dissimilar to what I said previously, that they are watching you from the very second you enter the premises.
There is a website called Benefits and Work ( www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/) which have some great information. I think its £10 registration fee but they have all the information (and how to phrase things on forms) on appeals, tribunals etc, its well worth it for your friend. He has to gather all medical evidence right now, start pestering his GP, Consultant etc and send it with the appeal within 28 days.
Tell him not to give up, thats what they are hoping he will do. |
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Quote ="rover49"Just got back from visiting my mate and he has told me what has gone on and it seems that all they are trying to do is get people off benefits, no matter what. He told me that he sent them information via a web site and then was given an appointment to go for his assessment. When he arrived he was told to wait in a seating area and was kept waiting for nearly an hour in view of the reception. When he was called in he had to walk up a corridor, up a set of stairs and along another corridor. During the assessment he was told that he had answered four of the queries already, namely he could use a computer, site for up to an hour, walk the minimum distance required and climb a flight of stairs. He was given a pen to fill a questionnaire out which proved he could use his hands.
He needed 15 points to keep his benefit and was given a score of 'zero' and told his benefits would stop.
Being a fiesty 2@, he asked what jobs he could do and if they could get him a placement in a workplace environment, but was told it was nothing to do with them, they just assessed to a set criteria and he could appeal if he wished.
He has asked me to be a referee on his behalf as I have known him since he was in his twenties and to give evidence as to his deterioration over the recent years, but he was told not to hold out much hope as the decision is unlikely to be reversed.
He is willing to work (in fact would love to), but an assessment of an hour does not set the full story of his situation, I have been to see him on days he has not been able to get out of bed and is high on pain killers, like most people in his situation he has good and bad days and I doubt many employers would put up with the likely levels of time off he will need over a prolonged period.
Tory Britain 2013.'"
Tell him to appeal. Ask him to request his medical assesment and see what exactly he scored zero points on. What you say above is not dissimilar to what I said previously, that they are watching you from the very second you enter the premises.
There is a website called Benefits and Work ( www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/) which have some great information. I think its £10 registration fee but they have all the information (and how to phrase things on forms) on appeals, tribunals etc, its well worth it for your friend. He has to gather all medical evidence right now, start pestering his GP, Consultant etc and send it with the appeal within 28 days.
Tell him not to give up, thats what they are hoping he will do. | |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Austerity is not working.
Growth is at a standstill, forget the comforting notion that we have avoided a triple-dip ... if you take London out of the picture, the country is still in deep recession.
Where are your plans for growth Miliband?
If you have any, we aren't seeing them.
That's the big essential ... where is it ?
Frankly, presenting yourselves as "as $h1t as the Tories", won't get votes.
On the plus side, he is making the right noises about reducing the cost of housing benefit without punishing the recipients of it ... and reducing the cost of tax credits by making employers pay a living wage.
The Tories have made themselves virtually unelectable, so what do we see? Labour painting themselves blue.
Utterly crazy.'"
I was a little surprised to hear Lord Oakeshot on QT last night, criticising all three main parties for not considering building council houses. He called for a massive programme of building for the rented sector, claiming it was such a programme that provided the stimulus to re-start the economy post-WW2. The rents could be set at levels that would require virtually no housing benefit. He was also adamant that there were £billions waiting to be invested in such a scheme |
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Moderator
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I've come to the conclusion that organising society like in Logan's Run is the only solution. Right, who's first?
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| Quote ="cod'ead"I was a little surprised to hear Lord Oakeshot on QT last night, criticising all three main parties for not considering building council houses. He called for a massive programme of building for the rented sector, claiming it was such a programme that provided the stimulus to re-start the economy post-WW2. The rents could be set at levels that would require virtually no housing benefit. He was also adamant that there were £billions waiting to be invested in such a scheme'"
He's right about the stimulus ... not sure about the billions.
But even the IMF reckon that the UK could borrow 10bn for growth with little impact ... but oooh no, borrowing is what got us into this mess (total , the banks got us where we are) and we mustn't borrow ... ever. |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Austerity is not working.
Growth is at a standstill, forget the comforting notion that we have avoided a triple-dip ... if you take London out of the picture, the country is still in deep recession.
Where are your plans for growth Miliband?
If you have any, we aren't seeing them.
That's the big essential ... where is it ?
Frankly, presenting yourselves as "as $h1t as the Tories", won't get votes.
On the plus side, he is making the right noises about reducing the cost of housing benefit without punishing the recipients of it ... and reducing the cost of tax credits by making employers pay a living wage.
The Tories have made themselves virtually unelectable, so what do we see? Labour painting themselves blue.
Utterly crazy.'"
Not only will it not gain them any votes, it'll lose them plenty. I fully intended to vote Labour at the next election (in a lesser of two evils/anyone but the Tories sort of way), but after yesterday's speech I see little point. I find the whole state of British politics thoroughly depressing. Would that someone would provide a real, viable alternative to the two main parties. |
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Not only will it not gain them any votes, it'll lose them plenty. I fully intended to vote Labour at the next election (in a lesser of two evils/anyone but the Tories sort of way), but after yesterday's speech I see little point. I find the whole state of British politics thoroughly depressing. Would that someone would provide a real, viable alternative to the two main parties.'"
A mere challenge to the narrow orthodoxy would be a start. |
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| Quote ="Rock God X"... Would that someone would provide a real, viable alternative to the two main parties.'"
In which case, what happens if everyone who says and believes this actually votes Green, say? |
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| Quote ="Mintball"In which case, what happens if everyone who says and believes this actually votes Green, say?'"
That's similar to what people said at the last election about the Lib Dems |
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| Quote ="Chris28"That's similar to what people said at the last election about the Lib Dems'"
The aim then, I think, being electoral reform.
Looking at their policies, though, would you really see the Greens clambering into bed with the Tories?
On the other hand, they might, if they had a big leap forward, be able to form a coalition with Labour. Which would be interesting. |
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A slight move away from the core subject: [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22798200government wants to have ex-soldiers trained as teachers[/url (skipping the usual teacher training process, which rather makes a mockery of claims it's not tough enough).
But: "Shadow education secretary Stephen Twigg said Labour supported re-training troops as teachers but said the government had been too slow to do it."
After Michael Portillo lost his seat, the [iMorning Star[/i lobby correspondent at the time observed that Twigg was more right-wing than his predecessor. Looking at the situation we're currently in, it's not difficulty to see the truth of that, and more widely than Mike was describing at the time.
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"He's right about the stimulus ... not sure about the billions.
But even the IMF reckon that the UK could borrow 10bn for growth with little impact ... but oooh no, borrowing is what got us into this mess (total rubbish, the banks got us where we are) and we mustn't borrow ... ever.'"
But we wouldn't be borrowing anything at all  , we'd be selling things, government bonds to be exact. 50-99 year bonds at 3% to cover the cost of construction, suitable land is already owned by central and local government. If there's not enough available, then we simply allow local government to purchase agricultural land, give itself planning permission and flog half off to private developers, that should cover the construction of the council houses.
The means are there, it's only the political will that's absent |
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| Quote ="Mintball"The aim then, I think, being electoral reform.'"
From a personal perspective, I felt (at that point) that the LDs did offer something slightly different, as well as the above, to the other 2 main parties. At the end of the day though, many people apparently didn't follow through on the opinion poll thoughts and we all know what happened. Sell out city. Unfortunately, schmucko supremo here fell for it 
Quote Looking at their policies, though, would you really see the Greens clambering into bed with the Tories?
On the other hand, they might, if they had a big leap forward, be able to form a coalition with Labour. Which would be interesting.'"
On the former, not a chance, but like you, if Labour move away from their current blue tinted shtick, the latter would be interesting. |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"But we wouldn't be borrowing anything at all
, we'd be selling things, government bonds to be exact. 50-99 year bonds at 3% to cover the cost of construction, suitable land is already owned by central and local government. If there's not enough available, then we simply allow local government to purchase agricultural land, give itself planning permission and flog half off to private developers, that should cover the construction of the council houses.
The means are there, it's only the political will that's absent'"
Stop talking sense. |
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| Quote ="Mintball"In which case, what happens if everyone who says and believes this actually votes Green, say?'"
That's probably what I'll end up doing. |
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Moderator
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Milliband's speech was actually ok.
Looks like he has finally realised that Labour need some economic credibility. Just saying they will reverse tory policies when there will be no money to do so makes him sound silly.
Also welfare reform is popular, it is sensible to get on that bandwagon.
I also like the idea that people who have worked for a long time and find themselves unemployed will get a higher rate of benefits than those that have never worked.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"... Looks like he has finally realised that Labour need some economic credibility...'"
The argument against that is that copying a government that has no "economic credibility" – that is failing on the specific, stated points that the Chancellor laid out as key – is hardly conducive to any credibility. |
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There are several very key points in his speech that are deservedly highlighted by him but then not addressed with a solution, only one of which is...
[i“Thirty years ago for every £100 pounds we spent on housing, £80 was invested in bricks and mortar and £20 was spent on housing benefit. Today, for every £100 we spend on housing, just £5 is invested in bricks and mortar and £95 goes on housing benefit.”[/i
As pointed out in that article the reason for the stat is the move by all flavours of government away from local authority housing ("council houses"icon_wink.gif to the paying of housing benefit to private organisations and individual private landlords and inevitably there will be a basic human flaw and a very basic capitalist flaw in this switch of policy - the need to make profit from such housing provision, worse still, the need to increase that profit year on year in order to make it viable for more investors to come on board.
I'm of a vintage and with experience in the building trade to remember the days 30 years and more (which Milliband has only read about in text books) when huge investment was made in local authority housing but also, and just as importantly, in private, not-for-profit, housing association stock - my area of experience was the north east of England where, as I've mentioned before, the company I worked for were involved in the new-build and refurbishment of tens of thousands of housing units, even through what was then the worst recession in living history.
The money for that work, which involved tens of thousands of jobs in just that small area, was provided through sheer political will, nothing else required under both Labour and especially a very right wing Conservative government and I simply refuse to believe that such a will could not be re-implemented right now, indeed if such a thing happened tomorrow it may just save Camerons neck in two years time.
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There are several very key points in his speech that are deservedly highlighted by him but then not addressed with a solution, only one of which is...
[i“Thirty years ago for every £100 pounds we spent on housing, £80 was invested in bricks and mortar and £20 was spent on housing benefit. Today, for every £100 we spend on housing, just £5 is invested in bricks and mortar and £95 goes on housing benefit.”[/i
As pointed out in that article the reason for the stat is the move by all flavours of government away from local authority housing ("council houses"icon_wink.gif to the paying of housing benefit to private organisations and individual private landlords and inevitably there will be a basic human flaw and a very basic capitalist flaw in this switch of policy - the need to make profit from such housing provision, worse still, the need to increase that profit year on year in order to make it viable for more investors to come on board.
I'm of a vintage and with experience in the building trade to remember the days 30 years and more (which Milliband has only read about in text books) when huge investment was made in local authority housing but also, and just as importantly, in private, not-for-profit, housing association stock - my area of experience was the north east of England where, as I've mentioned before, the company I worked for were involved in the new-build and refurbishment of tens of thousands of housing units, even through what was then the worst recession in living history.
The money for that work, which involved tens of thousands of jobs in just that small area, was provided through sheer political will, nothing else required under both Labour and especially a very right wing Conservative government and I simply refuse to believe that such a will could not be re-implemented right now, indeed if such a thing happened tomorrow it may just save Camerons neck in two years time.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"
Looks like he has finally realised that Labour need some economic credibility...'"
You are confusing economic credibility with the perception of economic credibilty.
They are not the same thing.
The Tory message about it all being Gordon Brown's fault is erroneous and at best disingenuous.
Quote ="Ajw71"
…Just saying they will reverse tory policies when there will be no money to do so makes him sound silly.'"
It would ... but he never has said that.
Quote ="Ajw71" Also welfare reform is popular, it is sensible to get on that bandwagon...'"
This sums up a lot of what is wrong with the public's engagement with politics.
When people would rather have bandwagon politicians than someone with genuine conviction, we would be in very poor situation. |
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| Quote ="JerryChicken"[urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/29/leeds-council-bedroom-tax-solution[/url
Fairly typically though you only have to point a reporters notebook underneath a Tory politicians nose for a snide comment to be issued forth, step forward Councillor Barry Anderson ""[iIt does not solve the core of the problem. There needs to more advice for people on housing benefits … hardworking, good tenants may lose out.[/i" Barry wouldn't be suggesting that those on housing benefit are NOT hardworking good tenants would he, surely no-one would make such a wild assumption ?'"
Perhaps Barry should have provided a [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339340/Dont-cut-32-000-benefits-Unemployed-mother-seven-says-living-just-2-000-month-leave-family-homeless.htmllink[/url to illustrate his point better? |
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, we'd be selling things, government bonds to be exact. 50-99 year bonds at 3% to cover the cost of construction, suitable land is already owned by central and local government. If there's not enough available, then we simply allow local government to purchase agricultural land, give itself planning permission and flog half off to private developers, that should cover the construction of the council houses.
