They haven't started on the cold baths, fagging and whipping us round the back of our bare legs with wet towels yet.

The British public clearly do not think austerity has gone far enough. Appparently, per a poll reported this morning 72% of Tory voters think politicians are reckless in spending taxpayer money, 69% of Lib Dem voters and a whopping 79% of Labour voters. When asked the question differently, only 19% thought they spent money wisely.

In essence, Labour have nowhere to go on this issue as the Tories are in step with public opinion.

Which poll is that and what was the question asked in it?

Quote ="El Barbudo"Which poll is that and what was the question asked in it?'" www.cityam.com/article/british-p ... nservative

Quote ="El Barbudo"Which poll is that and what was the question asked in it?'" www.cityam.com/article/british-p ... nservative

Quote ="Dally"www.cityam.com/article/british-public-slowly-becoming-more-fiscally-conservative'" Oh dear, a survey conducted on behalf of 4th Agenda and, lo and behold, it "proves" that the majority of people are in favour of a fiscal cliff. Never mind that a fiscal cliff is (coincidentally, of course) the the main demand of 4th Agenda, never mind that most people in the UK don't know what fiscal cliff means and never mind that the question wasn't actually about this government but just about "government" in general. Only a month ago another poll showed that only 20% thought the coalition's policies were good for the economy. 58% thought they were harmful. www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... inion-poll

Quote ="Dally"www.cityam.com/article/british-public-slowly-becoming-more-fiscally-conservative'" Oh dear, a survey conducted on behalf of 4th Agenda and, lo and behold, it "proves" that the majority of people are in favour of a fiscal cliff. Never mind that a fiscal cliff is (coincidentally, of course) the the main demand of 4th Agenda, never mind that most people in the UK don't know what fiscal cliff means and never mind that the question wasn't actually about this government but just about "government" in general. Only a month ago another poll showed that only 20% thought the coalition's policies were good for the economy. 58% thought they were harmful. www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... inion-poll

A well-informed critique of a poll whose results do not fit your agenda!

It certainly fits their agenda.
I mean, since when has the question "Do you think the government is too reckless with taxpayers' money" been a recipe for valuable insight?
No matter which government is in power and regardless of the political persuasion of those of whom you ask, you'll get pretty much the same answer.

As "austerity" measures have proved an utter and complete disaster across the whole of Europe, can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?

Osborne and his Eurochums remind me of Basil Fawlty giving his economy car a good thrashing, and to as much effect.

Things are not great in the UK, but have you seen how they are in France?

Austerity gone too far? No.

Same old trolling by the OP.

Hardly, he linked to a news report - you might not agree with it in which case say so, but its a valid news report by a valid news media outlet, he hasn't invented something to deliberately inflame a situation.

You really have to learn how to handle yourself in a social situation young man.

Yes. I have close relatives in France. This answers my question in what respect, exactly, though? To recap:

"Can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?"

Seeing as Labour are ahead in all the opinion polls it suggests the public trust Labour to spend taxpayers money best now and are starting to ask questions why the Tories are being reckless with things like Thatchers funeral.

Deep insight there.
Love the way you back it up with reasoned argument.


I see, so mentioning genuine stats about how the debt-to-GDP ratio has worsened is now trolling is it?
Dearie me.

Since you seem to have missed the following:



And:

Ok I won't voice my opinion any more. I don't want to be banned or labelled a troll.

I'm sure you're clever enough to understand the difference between voicing an opinion and trolling in a manner that simply drives numerous threads down the same blind alleys.

Right ... so what's your opinion on the debt-to-GDP ratio?
What's your opinion on the continuation of the recession due to ignoring the effects of imposed-austerity on the economy?
If you are not trolling, you'll have some sort of reasoned argument for your thus-far-not-expressed opinion, let's hear what it is.

Completely different issues. I think politicians are reckless spenders of taxpayer money, but also think the austerity measures are too severe, albeit in the wrong areas.

I don't think any political party has the ability to solve the UK deficit and debt problems without fear of losing votes or losing other politicians support - basically stemming from greed. To say "the Tories are in step with public opinion" as a conclusion to the statistics produced from this survey is completely laughable seen as Tories are politicians as well! If anything, as the Tories are in charge of the cheque book, it would suggest the opposite. Try to see past party politics!

Spend more than earn = bad.

Earn more than spend = good.

That seems to be the basic concept behind it. But we all knew that anyway.

Imo the case for austerity was always pretty weak, but it is now almost definitely causing much more harm than good.

The problem is that politicians all around the developed world (nobody more so than Cameron and Osborne) have invested so much political capital into austerity, that there is no way for them to turn away from it without admitting they have made a string of absolutely shocking decisions, that have had disastrous consequences.

I have no idea why Labour aren't absolutely nailing the conservatives with this. All I can think is that they don't back themselves to be able to convince the public with facts and evidence, vs the Tories 'common sense' soundbites of: belt tightening, maxing credit cards etc.


The confidence fairy. If only the government wasn't spending so much money (risking turning us into the new Greece), then big business would have the confidence to spend and invest again, and that would lead to a private sector lead recovery like the one we're going through now... oh wait.

What "austerity measures" do you think are "too severe"? What impact do those measures have on the economy as a whole?

I think there are a few reasons why they sit on their hands and watch from afar whilst collecting what is by most measures an impressive salary and even more impressive expenses and retirement package for a five year contract...

1. If they have an alternative plan then they don't have a "personality" to present it for them, there is no-one in their team with half an ounce of gravitas to make it sound like he knows that his solution is the best - LibDems had one in opposition in Vince Cable, everyone wanted to interview him in opposition but he's been shown to be a sham mouthpiece quoting only theories since being shuffled sideways into a job with no real purpose.

2. They don't have an alternative plan that much is clear, their strategy is to wait for five years, draw the salary and then walk back into power on the back of a disastrous Tory/LibDem term which even a five year old child could shoot down at the election televised debates.

3. There is no plan anywhere in the world that could offer a quick solution, there are people who claim that there is but those people are simply quoting theories, truth is that the whole world economic cycle has been shown and proved to be an impossible dream driven by con-men, shysters, gamblers, smoke and mirrors and some of Sooties magic dust, even last week we saw that the "experts" do not have a clue what is happening when statements were made of GDP figures showing the UK slipping into another recession when in fact they were several points better than the "experts" thought they would be - those self same "experts" would have gambled your pension scheme on their "predictions" last week based on their "expert" knowledge.

What relevence does this have to me highlighting your incorrect interpretation of statistics?

That's the simplistic take on it that the coalition have been pushing all along.
If it were as simple as that no-one would take out a mortgage and no business would borrow to upgrade machinery.
I have seen MPs freely interchanging the terms deficit and debt as though they are the same thing ... which makes one wonder, do they actually know the difference between deficit, structural deficit and debt, and if they do, why are they using one term to mean the other?

Of course, if you have a deficit, then you want to eliminate it at some point, especially if it's structural.
Is a recession the time to do it?
In some ways partly yes, and others no.
If one's family finances are broke, you'd stop buying luxuries but you wouldn't stop buying your travel season ticket that gets you to work.
In a national economy you also have the economy itself to think about ... i.e. GDP ... if you sack loads of people, it costs you in benefit payments and also has a knock-on effect in that other people lose their jobs too, not just the ones you sacked.
That spirals down and down.