Quote ="Chris28"O/T but related to the above posts - there's an interesting letter in last week's [iPrivate Eye[/i about wheelchair access to ATOS assessment centres (following an article in the previous issue about the lack of accessible centres). Effectively the opinion is that if people [ucan[/u get in when there is no wheelchair access they are not disabled, so potentially fit for work and if they [ucan't[/u get in, they are considered as "failed to attend" and have benefits stopped. Quite far fetched, so possibly true.'" From last year Chris; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20423701 Ours in Hull is Stanley Street which is all on one level. Its also not the only things that can get your benefit stopped. Some have been known to use CCTV in the car park and if you drive yourself you are fit for work. If you look nice and have makeup on and nice hair you are deemed to be able to get yourself ready and be fit for work. One of the favourite questions is "Did you watch Eastenders/Corrie/Emmerdale last night", you think they are being polite but if you say yes then you are deemed able to sit still for half an hour and be fit for work. Another is "Do you have pets?" If you say yes and leave it at that, then you are deemed capable of looking after pets therefore fit for work. The answers have to be "Yes I did watch TV but had to get up/stretch (or whatever) after about 10 minutes, etc" and "Yes I have two dogs but my spouse is their primary care giver." And never go looking presentable either!!

Quote ="Chris28"O/T but related to the above posts - there's an interesting letter in last week's [iPrivate Eye[/i about wheelchair access to ATOS assessment centres (following an article in the previous issue about the lack of accessible centres). Effectively the opinion is that if people [ucan[/u get in when there is no wheelchair access they are not disabled, so potentially fit for work and if they [ucan't[/u get in, they are considered as "failed to attend" and have benefits stopped. Quite far fetched, so possibly true.'" From last year Chris; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20423701 Ours in Hull is Stanley Street which is all on one level. Its also not the only things that can get your benefit stopped. Some have been known to use CCTV in the car park and if you drive yourself you are fit for work. If you look nice and have makeup on and nice hair you are deemed to be able to get yourself ready and be fit for work. One of the favourite questions is "Did you watch Eastenders/Corrie/Emmerdale last night", you think they are being polite but if you say yes then you are deemed able to sit still for half an hour and be fit for work. Another is "Do you have pets?" If you say yes and leave it at that, then you are deemed capable of looking after pets therefore fit for work. The answers have to be "Yes I did watch TV but had to get up/stretch (or whatever) after about 10 minutes, etc" and "Yes I have two dogs but my spouse is their primary care giver." And never go looking presentable either!!

Isn't there also a far greater chance of a successful appeal if the apellant attends in person? I realise that Atos do not make attendance easy but maybe that's the very reason?

The whole sense of justice has turned on its head with the disabled having to prove they really are disable (innocent) after being declared to be not disabed (guilty)

A different DWP assesor will look at the form you provided again with any extra that you have submitted in the meantime which you are quite entitled to do, provided it reaches them within the 28 day limit. Its always worth getting the original assesment back as well, so you know what you have scored points on and what you haven't. If you "fail" again you will be given a chance to take it to tribunal (an independent panel) and its then you have to go in person, always with someone with you. People don't realise that its the DWP who actually make the decision, not Atos, they just ask the (rather ludicrous) questions on behalf of the DWP.

Not sure of who assessed him, going to see him tomorrow to see if there is anything I can help with.

Government "agencies" are all in it together. For instance if someone has major need for specialist education the local authority will spend all their time internally arguing how much should be paid by "education", "social care" and "health" where there are complex needs. They will not make provision but waste ten of thousands of pounds in internal meetings and producing nonsense paperwork. Much better to either spend that on front-line care or else if they are not going to do anything useful get rid of all the beaurocrats. But worse than that they are very reluctant to cross-refer to say the NHS for funding in cases of long-term continuing need, which you might expect a local authority to do in order to get out of paying themselves. There must be some reason for the reluctance - they get in trouble, there is some potential reciprocal financial comeback, etc. Whatever, it's a crazy state of affairs.

Just got back from visiting my mate and he has told me what has gone on and it seems that all they are trying to do is get people off benefits, no matter what. He told me that he sent them information via a web site and then was given an appointment to go for his assessment. When he arrived he was told to wait in a seating area and was kept waiting for nearly an hour in view of the reception. When he was called in he had to walk up a corridor, up a set of stairs and along another corridor. During the assessment he was told that he had answered four of the queries already, namely he could use a computer, site for up to an hour, walk the minimum distance required and climb a flight of stairs. He was given a pen to fill a questionnaire out which proved he could use his hands.

He needed 15 points to keep his benefit and was given a score of 'zero' and told his benefits would stop.

Being a fiesty 2@, he asked what jobs he could do and if they could get him a placement in a workplace environment, but was told it was nothing to do with them, they just assessed to a set criteria and he could appeal if he wished.

He has asked me to be a referee on his behalf as I have known him since he was in his twenties and to give evidence as to his deterioration over the recent years, but he was told not to hold out much hope as the decision is unlikely to be reversed.

He is willing to work (in fact would love to), but an assessment of an hour does not set the full story of his situation, I have been to see him on days he has not been able to get out of bed and is high on pain killers, like most people in his situation he has good and bad days and I doubt many employers would put up with the likely levels of time off he will need over a prolonged period.

Tory Britain 2013.

Aye, and the banks carry on swallowing our money.
Whose bloody country is it?

Pop down to The Grove Hotel, Watford this weekend and ask [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/05/bilderberg-2013-goldman-sachs-watfordThe Bilderberg Group[/url. Those fookers are running the world, not just our country

A bunch of absolute a-holes.

Unfortunately after Miliband's little speech today, I seriously fear for anyone in this country who is not of independent means, post 2015.

It's come to something when Labour feel they have to appear to be as big a bunch of bastads as any tory, simply to suck up to the middle classes and the media that decide their itinerary.

I have always had faith in the power of the ballot box, that faith is waning rapidly and I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing everyone of voting age could do on election day 2015 is stay at home. If nobody votes for any of these fookers, they may just get the message.

Which is almost exactly what the corporatocracy would love.

Then the only alternative is revolution or at least, public revolt.

I'm not talking about a couple od days rioting, I mean storming the strongholds of the new ruling class. Ripping the gates to their communities off their hinges and taking over their mansions and opening the doors to the poor. Almost all politicians are in awe to the corporatocracy, they rely on their patronage and would suck enough corporate cock to put a handrail round the British coastline.

I'm 61, I've been cognisant of governments of various hues for over 50 years. I was one of the early recipients of Beveridge's brave new world. We moved into a brand new council house before my 2nd birthday, prior to that I benefited from the NHS by being born in a dedicated maternity hospital and at 6 months of age, I also had major surgery after the family dog nearly ripped my eye out. I was immunised or innoculated against what were killer diseases. My ex-wife suffered from polio as a child but she received emergency care and post-trauma treatment so she could live a normal life, without having to wear the leg-irons what were still all too prevalent in my youth.

I know what to expect from a tory government, I never expected to hear a Labour leader confirm that he would continue to shaft the less able in our society. Basically, as far as Labour are concerned, I've shat 'em and if I ever meet Miliband, I'd probably lamp the 2@

If voting changed anything they'd have outlawed it years ago.

Correct.

And if hard work was good for you, the rich would have it for themselves.

Austerity is not working.
Growth is at a standstill, forget the comforting notion that we have avoided a triple-dip ... if you take London out of the picture, the country is still in deep recession.

Where are your plans for growth Miliband?
If you have any, we aren't seeing them.
That's the big essential ... where is it ?

Frankly, presenting yourselves as "as $h1t as the Tories", won't get votes.

On the plus side, he is making the right noises about reducing the cost of housing benefit without punishing the recipients of it ... and reducing the cost of tax credits by making employers pay a living wage.

The Tories have made themselves virtually unelectable, so what do we see? Labour painting themselves blue.
Utterly crazy.

Neo-liberalism is the orthodoxy and none of the three main parties appear to even realise that anything else exists.

I mentioned it before – so many of them studying exactly the same PPE course at exactly the same place, Oxford. It's one factor behind the total lack of ideas beyond the aforementioned orthodoxy.

Quote ="rover49"Just got back from visiting my mate and he has told me what has gone on and it seems that all they are trying to do is get people off benefits, no matter what. He told me that he sent them information via a web site and then was given an appointment to go for his assessment. When he arrived he was told to wait in a seating area and was kept waiting for nearly an hour in view of the reception. When he was called in he had to walk up a corridor, up a set of stairs and along another corridor. During the assessment he was told that he had answered four of the queries already, namely he could use a computer, site for up to an hour, walk the minimum distance required and climb a flight of stairs. He was given a pen to fill a questionnaire out which proved he could use his hands. He needed 15 points to keep his benefit and was given a score of 'zero' and told his benefits would stop. Being a fiesty 2@, he asked what jobs he could do and if they could get him a placement in a workplace environment, but was told it was nothing to do with them, they just assessed to a set criteria and he could appeal if he wished. He has asked me to be a referee on his behalf as I have known him since he was in his twenties and to give evidence as to his deterioration over the recent years, but he was told not to hold out much hope as the decision is unlikely to be reversed. He is willing to work (in fact would love to), but an assessment of an hour does not set the full story of his situation, I have been to see him on days he has not been able to get out of bed and is high on pain killers, like most people in his situation he has good and bad days and I doubt many employers would put up with the likely levels of time off he will need over a prolonged period. Tory Britain 2013.'" Tell him to appeal. Ask him to request his medical assesment and see what exactly he scored zero points on. What you say above is not dissimilar to what I said previously, that they are watching you from the very second you enter the premises. There is a website called Benefits and Work (www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/) which have some great information. I think its £10 registration fee but they have all the information (and how to phrase things on forms) on appeals, tribunals etc, its well worth it for your friend. He has to gather all medical evidence right now, start pestering his GP, Consultant etc and send it with the appeal within 28 days. Tell him not to give up, thats what they are hoping he will do.

Quote ="rover49"Just got back from visiting my mate and he has told me what has gone on and it seems that all they are trying to do is get people off benefits, no matter what. He told me that he sent them information via a web site and then was given an appointment to go for his assessment. When he arrived he was told to wait in a seating area and was kept waiting for nearly an hour in view of the reception. When he was called in he had to walk up a corridor, up a set of stairs and along another corridor. During the assessment he was told that he had answered four of the queries already, namely he could use a computer, site for up to an hour, walk the minimum distance required and climb a flight of stairs. He was given a pen to fill a questionnaire out which proved he could use his hands. He needed 15 points to keep his benefit and was given a score of 'zero' and told his benefits would stop. Being a fiesty 2@, he asked what jobs he could do and if they could get him a placement in a workplace environment, but was told it was nothing to do with them, they just assessed to a set criteria and he could appeal if he wished. He has asked me to be a referee on his behalf as I have known him since he was in his twenties and to give evidence as to his deterioration over the recent years, but he was told not to hold out much hope as the decision is unlikely to be reversed. He is willing to work (in fact would love to), but an assessment of an hour does not set the full story of his situation, I have been to see him on days he has not been able to get out of bed and is high on pain killers, like most people in his situation he has good and bad days and I doubt many employers would put up with the likely levels of time off he will need over a prolonged period. Tory Britain 2013.'" Tell him to appeal. Ask him to request his medical assesment and see what exactly he scored zero points on. What you say above is not dissimilar to what I said previously, that they are watching you from the very second you enter the premises. There is a website called Benefits and Work (www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/) which have some great information. I think its £10 registration fee but they have all the information (and how to phrase things on forms) on appeals, tribunals etc, its well worth it for your friend. He has to gather all medical evidence right now, start pestering his GP, Consultant etc and send it with the appeal within 28 days. Tell him not to give up, thats what they are hoping he will do.

I was a little surprised to hear Lord Oakeshot on QT last night, criticising all three main parties for not considering building council houses. He called for a massive programme of building for the rented sector, claiming it was such a programme that provided the stimulus to re-start the economy post-WW2. The rents could be set at levels that would require virtually no housing benefit. He was also adamant that there were £billions waiting to be invested in such a scheme

I've come to the conclusion that organising society like in Logan's Run is the only solution. Right, who's first?

He's right about the stimulus ... not sure about the billions.
But even the IMF reckon that the UK could borrow 10bn for growth with little impact ... but oooh no, borrowing is what got us into this mess (total , the banks got us where we are) and we mustn't borrow ... ever.

Not only will it not gain them any votes, it'll lose them plenty. I fully intended to vote Labour at the next election (in a lesser of two evils/anyone but the Tories sort of way), but after yesterday's speech I see little point. I find the whole state of British politics thoroughly depressing. Would that someone would provide a real, viable alternative to the two main parties.

A mere challenge to the narrow orthodoxy would be a start.

In which case, what happens if everyone who says and believes this actually votes Green, say?

That's similar to what people said at the last election about the Lib Dems