And you clearly didn't watch the Youtube clip. Watch it and respond. Please.



If Hamas have made the offer why hasn't Israel called its bluff? After all, if Hamas went back on its word it would clearly make the Israeli cause that much stronger.

The fact that Israel picks its time to launch attacks in order to minimise overseas condemnation is beyond question. Even Haaretz (one of Israeli's leading newspapers - available in English) admits such.



Explain.

Really? Israel tries to present itself in the best light it can? I am surprised…..

There are other choices, Fight and die isn’t the only choice. There other options, The options you have presented aren’t the only ones, there are a multitude of others

Seriously, I [url=http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=norman%20finkelstein%20the%20history%20of&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsgiGyITn6Qc&ei=YmumUOusBYjC0QXyjIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNHj1U6MG1URsPkjMNlxF-whkDNYVADEFY[/url people to hold the same opinion about Israel after watching arguably the best summation of the Israel-Palestine conflict (made by someone outside the region).

This.
Israel knows very well that the more it squeezes Gaza, the greater the chances of retaliation from Hamas and the louder the voice of the more extreme elements within Gaza.

If the Welsh came back to Yorkshire where they lived thousands of years ago, claiming that it is unoccupied and belongs to them ... then divided it up with this New Wales separating the (now much smaller) East Riding from the (now much smaller) West Riding and then pushed me into Todmorden, meanwhile they build "settlements" all over the East Riding and a fkkin great wall to prevent the indigeneous East Riding Tykes from going to Leeds unless they have a permit from the Welsh.
You know what, I'd be a bit miffed and might just retaliate.
Then the Welsh would come over all affronted and demand the right to defend their civilians and invade the bit I live in, laying waste to a lot of it and sealing all the borders of it so that we can't export or import or trade or travel except through tunnels to Lancashire, starving us back into a subsistence age.

Would I fight back?
I think I might.

Yep, you keep saying this without qualifying in any way.

You're damned right.

What qualification could that statement possibly need?

I don't need to watch the clip as I watched the massacre unfold live on TV and am perfectly capable of recognising evil when I see it. What separates Hamas from the Israeli government is opportunity and capability, not intent.


Because they don't want to and don't need to. As long as they have the support of the USA they are untouchable and they know it. Why make concessions?

Neither Hamas nor the leadership of Israel is truly interested in a negotiated solution. They hate each other with a passion that is quite literally holy.

You know what everyone's opinion of Israel is? Impressive omniscience.

That only works as a plan, after terrorists launch attacks.

If there are no attacks, the plan doesn’t work.

if you keep hitting a bully and he keeps hitting you back, only harder. it may be time to change your approach.

still, watch this palestinians lazarus like recovery.

[urlhttp://order-order.com/2012/11/15/bbc-news-runs-fake-palestinian-casualty-spin-footage/[/url

Interesting following the [url=https://twitter.com/IDFSpokespersonIDF Spokesperson[/url and the [url=https://twitter.com/AlqassamBrigadeAl Qassam Brigades[/url on Twitter trying to out-fact and out-propaganda one another.

And for a little dark satire, the [url=https://twitter.com/HamasGlobalPRHamas Global PR[/url feed is worth a chuckle.

Hamas came to power because they were seen to offer an alternative to the mainstream PLO who supported a Two state Solution.

When you do not compromise, when you continue your unjust policies and when you continue to discriminate against a group of people and leave them with no alternative but to fight for their rights then you often force them down a more extremist route.

Israel will sow what it reaps. It may be able to inflict more pain on the Palestinians than vice versa but that will not always be the case.


At the end of the day it comes down to whose side you are on.

Me i am clear VICTORY TO THE PALESTINIANS

Not sure why everyone gets worked up about this issue. There a lots of other conflicts around the world that have more chance of resolution. The only way this one will resolve itself is if the state of Israel ceases to exist. I believe that will be the case in future unless there is global armageddon beforehand. Either way the result will eventually be no Jewish state in that location.

I get worked up, because as a father I do not like to see 100's of children killed by the IDF. I get worked up about this, because I do not like to see peoples homes being bulldozed around them. I get worked up, because I do not like the way the Israelis flout international law, steal land, brutalise and blockade. That's just the IDF I won't get onto the Ultra Orthodox mob and their antics.

Mugwamp at the end of the day the Israelis have the most powerful nation at their side vetoing and abstaining when it suits and always blaming the victim for being dispossessed bombed, starved and incarcerated. Add to this the very savvy media tactics and rhetoric the Israelis employ and it is no wonder the Israelis are never to blame.

Is it a coincidence that Netanyahu decides to take this action now? Israeli elections in January and the alleged non friendly Obama winning in the US.

Yes, your right-on sympathy for anyone who 'sticks it to the man' is well know and frequently displayed. Quite pathetic really.

Me, I'm on the 'side' of the vast majority of civilians on both sides who aren't interested in victory but just want a life free of suffering and sudden death. Sorry if that's not trendy enough for you.

Hamas were elected because the PLO were failing to [ideliver[/i on a two-state solution. Israel has no-one to blame for their rise to power but themselves.


Oops.

Like this you mean? I think I might want to fight too

Given your parameters, Israel should never have been granted legitimacy

And you accuse me of being right on.

Unfortunately Because the Israelis have never compromised and have continued blatant aggression and land grabbing against the Palestinians they have foirced them to fight.

Whilst the Israelis have had it their own way there has been no need for them to compromise.
Whilst they have had America supporting them militarily and politically they have had no need to compromise.

The Hamas strategy whether you agree with it or not, or think it will work is simple. They have not said they want to kill civillians they want the Israelis in Tel Aviv to live in fear knowing that can hit them with missiles at any time. They believe that will force the Israelis to compromise

I dont want to see civillians killed but i think losing a few hundred from the IDF might make the Israelis rethink their strategy a bit like they did the last time they invaded Lebanon.

Your right on approach of sitting on the fence does the victims in this no good at all. You just sit there and say how terrible it all is. Sometimes people have to fight and die to achieve what is right. Just like my Grandparents did to get the British out of Ireland.

amazing how the murdering palestinian scum get to fire hundreds of rockets into israel day after day with no retaliation from the IDF and there s no discussion on here, as soon as the IDF say right thats it time to give them some back everyone is up in arms about it in here,happens all the time.we ve discussed this in previous years when the same thing happened.out pouring of sympathy and support for the palestinian dead, but not a word about the jewish dead!!!!!!



evil jews
heroic palestinians

where are the arab countries amassing their forces to invade israel in defence and support of their fellow hard done to brothers!!!!
I think they are hated by other arab nations too.cant see any condemnation in here about the lack of support for their brothers!!

LONG LIVE ISRAEL.
RIP to the jewish dead.

anybody would fight back if they were pushed into todmorden

And there we have it - the source of the massive chips you carry on both shoulders.

Condemning both sides in a conflict isn't sitting on the fence BTW - it's being able to see the situation unfiltered through bias and inherited hatred. Something you are clearly incapable of.

Hamas are playing directly into the hands of the Israeli government. They have absolutely zero chance of a military victory against Israel and years of terrorist attacks have failed to do anything other than provide Israel with an excuse for it's continued aggression and failure to negotiate in good faith. It also ensures that no American president will be able to take action against Israel even if he should be so inclined. But you carry on cheering them on from the safety of your PC keyboard. It's not like you have to suffer any of the consequences, is it?

And there we have it.

If you were a pacifist or were arguing that from a religious point of view i could understand and credit your moral position.

But you are nothing but a political coward. Wanting to sit on the fence and stay in with everyone after all. What better position than to say it is terrible for both sides and give peace a chance.

So you equate the violence of the oppressor with the violence of the oppressed. Nothing but a political coward. That is why i side with the Palestinians and in a conflict i will support them because they are the oppressed, they are the victims and they need and deserve our support.

Sometimes you have to take sides. Sometimes you cannot equate both sides with the same moral position. Sometimes you have to fight for what you believe in and put your head above the parapet.




I was never a keyboard warrior the scars on my body and the stab wounds suggest i got off the fence and fought for what i believed in.