"we may as well be taking double-Dutch as none of the doctors have a clue what we are talking about as junior's condition is beyond their knowledge and expertise"

flamin' 'ell, Dally not only are you a top economist, a political guru, and the mouth piece of sensible people, but you are a medical consultant as well.

Hats off to you ... you know more than people who have studied and practiced medicine for over 6 years.

It's a fact I'm afraid. But that's because most doctors are either generalists (who do not have relevant specialism) or specialists in other fields. What is disappointing though is when young hospital doctors have not heard of a VNS device. I can understand people who trained years ago. I have resolved not to explain it again to a doctor. They could try Google or Wiki rather than me!

Mind you the young doctor on Saturday somewhat lacked observational skills. Blood was pouring from a deep, wide cut and she wanted to try to clean junior up to see where the blood was coming from! When I pointed the bleeding (literally) obvious out she was of the opinion it was an indentation rather than a cut! I kid you not.

like in all fields with humans: variations, successes and failures.

I can relate (from my few but serious occasions with the medics) bad and good: people only want to hear the bad.

You asked a question about my daughter's condition and doctors. No doctor short of a consultant and even then a consultant with specialism will make any decision about her. It's left to us and the consultants. GP won't. Local hospital won't. Top consultants are wise enough to state that we are the experts about her and advise us to try to steer clear of A&E's where possible!

Ah Dally, you're coming out as the sort of muppet who I deal with regularly now.

I work with (amongst others) people with Autism and the amount of parents, and other important others for that matter, who think that it's a 'one cap fits all' condition is unbelievable, and they all think they know better because they've read up on it.

Have you ever considered that you may actually be wrong and that professionals actually know what they're doing?

I know b****r all about it. But that's more than most doctors, who either look blank or ask you what you mean. Those are the facts.

As to the hospitals on Saturday, the more I think about it the more disgraceful it is:

Two hospitals with enormous resources take about 11 hours to do nothing and actually cause some modest harm. Not only that but they did not advise us what to do about changing the (wrong) dressing etc. As it happens we could not have removed it, it took a trained nurse half an hour. Good job her school, with less resources, are more competent.

I'm glad you're able to diagnose problems just by looking at people. You must be some sort of savant.


I'm also glad you're able to determine the cause of injury too. I presume when I presented at A&E a few years back with my face sliced wide open you'd have leapt to a similar conclusion. Fortunately, triage doesn't determine how you came to be injured, but adheres to the principle of each according to their need.


The pointlessness of this particularly archetypal rubbish from you would normally be brushed aside as it's obvious nonsense. It's the "sic" at the end which raises it to the level of 'waaah waaah I'm an opressed minority in my own country' right-wing filth. Explain which ethnic groups are greater in number than those that identify as 'white British'.
Not that it makes a bit of difference in terms of the treatment anyone is about to get. There are issues with medical professionals leaving and the NHS having to look further afield for recruits which also has knock-on effects from those regions where staff are being recruited from, but that's an argument of the pyramid scheme nature of global capitalism and not the state of your local A&E department.

1. Pretty easy to see who is in pain and who is not.
2. The point I was making that triage at many A&E's does not. It will take account of the obvious cases of immediate threat to life but the rest (even with threat to life) are lumped together.
3. The hospital in question was in London and very probably the minority nationally speaking were in the majority locally.

So you actually know the specific method that triage nurses use to prioritise patients in "many A&E"'s do you? I'm impressed. I won't ask you to reveal where you got this information, but perhaps you could quote the official triage methods in use at just one specific hospital A&E which to your knowledge has a triage system that does not, in fact, triage whatsoever but just places people in a straight queue without any regard at all to the nature of their problem.

I am familiar with the method used at Bradford Royal Infirmary, where most certainly each case is individually and carefully assessed, and given a priority based on the triage assessment. Maybe BRI is unique, though?

Nah, if you've ever watched "24 hours in A&E" you'll know that Kings Hospital does the same, its just my best guess but I think they might all follow the same procedure ?

In fact, if you've just cut your head then Kings will send you to a minor injuries department.

1. Really? Is it really? Again, I bow to your supernatural powers.
2. No it's not the point you were making. You were saying there were a number of people with injuries that were their own fault and caused by a lifestyle you dislike, thereby inferring that they were somehow less worthy of treatment.
3. No it's not the point you were making. You were using the term 'ethnic minorities' with carefully placed inverted commas to infer that Poles, blacks, Irish or others are not in fact in a minority.
You're a straw man.

Well I have visited a number of A&E's these last few years! I can say that I distinctly recall one particular occassion where the "careful assesment" you refer to was carried out by a very young nurse, who did not have a clue what we were talking about and we had to spell all the words for her! Given that advice at that stage was never to be more than 20 minutes away from a major hospital in case of emergency and then we were left to sit with an unconscious child for 3 hours on a hard chair in a cold reception area I can safely say the triage was ineffective. So much so that we subsequently asked for and were granted open access to a ward to avoid a repeat.

I am a great believer and lover of the NHS but for people to come on here and tell me everything is great (when in my EXTENSIVE personal experience it is very often absolutely CRAP and sometimes outright dangerous) is a joke. Things will never improve if people do not accet the faults. As I said previously, it may be that hospitals up North are better - certainly Queens Nottingham was better than the ones down here.

Ah. One occasion. OK. that is proof the triage system in the country is rubbish, I have to concede.



As a matter of interest, did you complain in writing, and what was the outcome?


And who said that? Why say that to me? I have only specifically responded to your general allegation that triage is basically non-existent, which is frankly rubbish. But how do you get "everything in the NHS is great" from that?


But not if nobody tells them of the alleged faults in instances they manifest themselves, so, did you complain in writing, and what was the outcome?

I have complained to that particular hospital on occasion - by 'phone after discharging my daughter for her own safety. They insisted we sign a form so I did and wrote on the reasons why - and got them to give me a photocopy so they couldn't supress it. Subequently, got the head of nursing to admit that they had been poor and to apologise; and the consultant brought it up at our next appointment to say that they not been at all good enough (although it was not down to him).

Another time, when we had a bit of an emergency while still on hospital premises (after having been discharged) I asked a nurse for help but she said she was going off duty but would get help (from the nurses station up the corridor). After a couple of minutes no one appeared so I had to leave junior unattended and run to get help myself - the nurse hadn't told them or they couldn't be bothered - talking among themselves as usual. Then the doctor came. Incapable of making a decision (which I knew would be readmission). Asked which consultant she was under, I replied Dr X here, and Dr Y at the regional centre. He then tried to tell me that they were not consultants as they were Drs not Mrs! Meanwhile junior is at risk. In the end I told him in no uncertain terms they were (the idiot not understanding his own profession). He then 'phones up for advice, whereupon he readmitted her.

You avoid that your original point made more reference to "ethnic minorities" than to the way your child was treated.


Why?


Still waiting as to what were you saying?



Well?

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... se-doctors Right wing rag bears out my observations. I think this quote from the article is especially to the point: .......at night led to "the most basic and inept clinical reviews to compound the shuttling of patients around the hospital with no thought to their welfare". PS Mrs Dally just told me she had spoken to Hospital 2 and their ineptitude continued during the conversation. When she explained what went on they said that sounded like a "formal complaint." These bodies seem to love a formal complaint rather than just listening. PPS Can't recall if I mentioned this before but when the nurse came in to see Miss D had fallen asleep in the several hours since he had last popped his head round the door, he brought her a "blanket" (actually a sheet). He put some other clean sheets, in case we needed them, on the......you guessed it ........clinical waste bin! They wonder how infections spread in these hospitals! What on Earth has happened to this country?

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... se-doctors Right wing rag bears out my observations. I think this quote from the article is especially to the point: .......at night led to "the most basic and inept clinical reviews to compound the shuttling of patients around the hospital with no thought to their welfare". PS Mrs Dally just told me she had spoken to Hospital 2 and their ineptitude continued during the conversation. When she explained what went on they said that sounded like a "formal complaint." These bodies seem to love a formal complaint rather than just listening. PPS Can't recall if I mentioned this before but when the nurse came in to see Miss D had fallen asleep in the several hours since he had last popped his head round the door, he brought her a "blanket" (actually a sheet). He put some other clean sheets, in case we needed them, on the......you guessed it ........clinical waste bin! They wonder how infections spread in these hospitals! What on Earth has happened to this country?

You kept that quiet.

They've promised to call him if they find a brain donor.

ooohh that was nasty....

Bravo to Dally, he never fails to annoy the Sin Bin. Can't believe people still respond to him after all this time.

Thing is they respond with emotional claptrap rather than looking at things with an open mind.

I read the first half page then gave up .
But .. and please excuse the drift ..

Mrs BR has recently got herself a place at a local university . Mature student placing . They had a 'meet and get to know eachother' night where all the mature students got to take their kids along .
Mrs BR took only our daughter along because our son was away on a school trip .
Our daughter was the only ginger child present on the night . Mrs BR thinks that is the reason that lil miss BR was allowed to win the pass-the-parcel and musical-chairs games .
She does not think that it is because out of 23 children at the get-together lil miss BR was the only child that was 'white English' , and the ladies running the games were by coincidence white too .
By the way .. Lil miss BR made loads of new friends that night , and so did Mrs BR . Mr BR is looking forwards to partaking in some of the invites to sample 'ethnic' cooking and fine ales at the invites we have accepted for more informal gatherings of the group . My new best mate Arkadiuz is going to show me how vodka should be treated with disrespect .
Wish me luck .