You're nearly right.
However, there are full border controls for people from outside the EU moving into the EU and it's the same for the movement of goods.
You could argue that it's just a case of getting the relevant paperwork but, there are physical checks for imported goods for the countries that you mention and shipments are usually scanned and occasionally "fully checked" to ensure that the paperwork is in order and again, for people, it's a case of having the right documentation and having border controls where this can be checked and this is THE main issue, especially on the Irish Border.
A fragile peace has been kept in Ireland (with the occasional serious incident) since the Good Friday agreement and "no deal" will see a return to some of the sectarian stuff from the '80's.
Of course this barely got a mention during the referendum but, this was always THE biggest issue and there is still no solution, only the hope that there could be one over the coming few years, which is why the EU insisted on the Backstop, something that Boris is still prepared to pretend doesn't matter.

There are border controls for EU citizens moving within the EU - have been to an airport recently it isn't simply free movement. There are still checks of goods moving within the EU - when they rarely have a drug seizure. The idea that every container coming into the EU is fully scanned is simple not true - they would have to open every container empty it etc. It doesn't happen. Goods with the correct paperwork move seamlessly into the EU from non EU countries so why is moving the same product across the Irish border in exactly the same way now such an issue?

The fact the Irish want to use violence as a smoke screen for organised crime is not an issue that should hold back such a huge decision - it is the only way the EU perceive they can delay us leaving. If the Irish want to blow each other up let them do it. We shouldn't let 3-4 million people dictate for 60+ million - our have we all turned into Queen Nicola, we let gangs in London kill each other every week with much of an attempt to stop it.

Sorry but, you're wrong again.
You previously mentioned freight form China, USA etc and yes, EVERY shipping container is scanned. I can send you copy invoices showing the charge for this if you like, and some are opened (although this is pretty rare).
Within Europe, which is a single trading block, things are different. Of course there are passport controls between certain nations and especially at airports.
However, you seem to be suggesting that NONE of this will happen between the two "halves" of Ireland and that everything should be allowed to move accross the border, in both directions, based on "trust"


Remembering that YOU voted to "take back control" of our borders, one of which is on the island of Ireland. Therefore, there would have to be FULL border control, both for people and goods, which will massively impact on the everyday lives of all of those living there - who regularly move from north to south and south to north.
Ireland will still be full members of the EU, with free movement form anywhere in Europe - apart from the UK, which seems slightly strange but, it's part of "the package".
You may well b right about organised crime and an open border certainly makes the movement of illegal goods and people far simpler.
Therefore, how would you prevent this from happening, a fecking honesty box at each border crossing



The Tories and Farage dont have the answer yet, other than saying that they "will have one soon" but, the truth is they havent got a clue and in a no deal scenario, the best they have got is that "we wont put any border controls in place", which isnt any kind of "control", is it.

I thought we'd move beyond this simplistic nonsense which conflates either through ignorance wilful misrepresentation the supply chains from the EU and those from further afield. Do you have any idea how the ro-ro Port of Dover works compared to the container Port of Felixstowe? Dover is based on immediate throughput for accompanied wheeled freight from Calais and Dunkerque and has very little standage area for inspection and clearance.

The big container ports require clearance by customs, with some of the paper shuffling being managed by teams who deal with it during the sea passage which takes several weeks. Then you need to sort out the duty payments, unless you have an approved deferment account.

At the very best it will take several years to build the required customs facilities for this to even come close to working, never mind training enough staff to deal with such a huge increase in workload. The idea of leaving without any of this in place is insanity to anyone with the slightest clue about supply chains or logistics management.

I dont agree with the "several years" comment but, it certainly wont be instant.
Therefore, we either turn a blind eye to freight coming in from the EU or, as you rightly say, there will be a huge backlog of traffic.

It's patently clear that neither ourselves or the EU are ready for no deal, which may suggest that there will, even at this late stage, be some form of agreement.

It will be years - the port of Dover has no space for any customs checking facilities, it's just not a thing since they were all removed in the early '90s, since when freight has grown exponentially. Given how slowly infrastructure developments move in this country it will be a long time before suitable facilities are in place.

Not just Dover either.

Dover isn't a port that we imported goods through as the primary choice was always Felixstowe.
However, on the basis that container freight still comes in through the port of Dover, there must be some facilities for physical customs checks.
I do agree that it would take time to upscale these to deal with a significant increase in checks but, it's not impossible to change things.
Mind you, in a "no deal" scenario, despite Gove's waffling on the Marr show yesterday, time is something that we wont have.

Talking of Gove, how the hell can he say that the settled status system is working well when, with 8 weeks to go till Halloween, there are a further 2+ million Europeans still to "process"

It seems abundantly clear that, despite "leaving do or die" and £billions being thrown at the project, we are bloody miles away from being ready and that just like Mrs May, all we are being "fed" is guff and hot air.

I wonder if Boris will be forced to resign is we're not "out" on 31st October.

Container freight doesn't come through Dover. Container traffic tends to be longer-distance international freight although you do get some short-sea stuff.
Dover is all about fast-moving wheeled freight, accompanied by drivers, coming from the EU. That's how our food gets into the country.

Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Container freight doesn't come through Dover. Container traffic tends to be longer-distance international freight although you do get some short-sea stuff. Dover is all about fast-moving wheeled freight, accompanied by drivers, coming from the EU. That's how our food gets into the country.'" Sorry but, you are wrong. There are definitely facilities at Dover for loading/unloading container freight. I'm not saying that it's anything remotely like Felixstowe and although we haven't imported container freight there, usually preferring Felixstowe, there is a facility there.https://www.dover-marina.com/cargo/ You are right to point out that it (Dover) is the primary port for transportation from France for both people and road freight and the hold up's and delays in the event of "no deal" would certainly be "interesting".

Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Container freight doesn't come through Dover. Container traffic tends to be longer-distance international freight although you do get some short-sea stuff. Dover is all about fast-moving wheeled freight, accompanied by drivers, coming from the EU. That's how our food gets into the country.'" Sorry but, you are wrong. There are definitely facilities at Dover for loading/unloading container freight. I'm not saying that it's anything remotely like Felixstowe and although we haven't imported container freight there, usually preferring Felixstowe, there is a facility there.https://www.dover-marina.com/cargo/ You are right to point out that it (Dover) is the primary port for transportation from France for both people and road freight and the hold up's and delays in the event of "no deal" would certainly be "interesting".

Some realism is needed here - the same trucks with the same paperwork will pass through Dover on the 31st of October as do on the 1st November so what changes? There needs to be a duty calculation - this can be done from the paperwork, or are you suggesting they are going to empty every vehicle to calculate the duty?

There will be a rapid evolution of how goods flow from the EU to the UK and visa versa - the duty calculation will be done by freight clearance companies as is done for goods coming from outside of the EU - it could be argued it will create more jobs.

The idea that trucks will be queuing from Calais to Dunkirk & even Lille is fantasy

but the notion of queues is good for scaremongering!

It’s a fact that border controls will be increased if it’s a no deal exit.

Lorries tend to go to a port and wait for a ferry even if they’re told not to. There are tens of thousands of lorry movements per day. If there are any hold ups it will mean queues forming within minutes. DfT don’t think there will be a problem. Other departments are less sure. Plans need to be made just in case. There’s only been one live exercise so far and that was a bit of a farce.

IF there is no deal, which effectively tears up all trading agreements between the EU and the UK, there is no "right of passage" for anything or anyone in either direction.
Of course, you would expect any issues to be ironed out fairly quickly but, NOBODY actually knows what will and wont be permitted and even if it's just simply presenting additional paperwork, this WILL cause delays.
I'm sure that you already know this, even though you hope that there wont be an issue.

Jesus wept you are just making stuff up, in a classic Brexiteer way. It's totally different "paperwork", getting stuff around the single market and in the customs union is totally different to bringing stuff in from outside. It's amazing how much uninformed rubbish people will say with amazing confidence.

Quote ="wrencat1873"Sorry but, you are wrong. There are definitely facilities at Dover for loading/unloading container freight. I'm not saying that it's anything remotely like Felixstowe and although we haven't imported container freight there, usually preferring Felixstowe, there is a facility there.https://www.dover-marina.com/cargo/ '" OK, I should have said hardly any container freight goes through Dover, certainly the big container ships don't and can't go there. About 9,000 containers pass through Dover annually compared to 4 million at Felixtowe so it's very marginal and the loss of Geest traffic will reduce that further.

Quote ="wrencat1873"Sorry but, you are wrong. There are definitely facilities at Dover for loading/unloading container freight. I'm not saying that it's anything remotely like Felixstowe and although we haven't imported container freight there, usually preferring Felixstowe, there is a facility there.https://www.dover-marina.com/cargo/ '" OK, I should have said hardly any container freight goes through Dover, certainly the big container ships don't and can't go there. About 9,000 containers pass through Dover annually compared to 4 million at Felixtowe so it's very marginal and the loss of Geest traffic will reduce that further.

You are scaremongering classic "Project Fear remainer" - what do you honestly think is going happen - nothing will move until all the paperwork is changed/switched to the same paperwork as is used for non-EU cargo i.e. months - stop making stuff up. Goods will move freely from day one disruption will be minimal because of the impact on the normal commercial infrastructure of any other situation.

Things will be slower at RoRo ports if it's no deal, that’s a fact. There is simply no way it will be unchanged if it is no deal. How slower depends on a few different factors. Mitigation plans exist that are scaleable depending on the delay but the longer the delay the greater the impact on everything else.

RoRo ports affected are Dover, Grimsby and Immingham, London, Holyhead and Portsmouth.

OK Boris, we believe you


Could you perhaps tell us what will happen with any goods en route from the Far East that currently have a tariff of say 5%, which, if we drop onto WTO rules will change to 12/13%.
Although usually, you would purchase goods knowing what levy would be applied, the import duty is paid when the goods arrive in the UK, therefore will I suddenly ow HMRC a further 7/8%. Do you think they will let me off, because it wasn't my fault or, do you think these goods will be held until the new correct level of duty is paid.
The same will happen to goods from the EU, which is currently a "free trade" zone for it's members.
Common sense would suggest that both sides continue with the free trade agreement. However, no other country currently has such a deal, without any contribution to the EU and this wont be negotiated until the Withdrawal Agreement has been passed.
You call others "project fear" and yet "blind faith" is your only guide

Jesus wept... So YOU were making stuff up to suit your agenda just like you accused Brexit supporters of doing?

If you'd like to suggest to any of my fellow transport industry journalists that Dover is a container port of any note feel free but they'll laugh at you as much as they would do Sal's ill-informed comments. Probably moreso given your other posts.

OK. Tell us all about what you know about bringing goods into the country from outside the EU and from inside it.
Tell us where the standage areas for inspection and clearance are in Dover, where goods wait whilst they are custom cleared or where they incur demurrage if someone messes up?

On what basis do you claim "goods will move freely". Is this a guess or have you any clue or experience? Or (and I'm being kind because I'm sure the detail is really beyond you) are you suggesting our opening gambit under World Trade Association rules is to disregard WTO requirements for imposing import duties and inspection regimes and just fling our border open? At the very least you can be certain this won't be the case in Calais where they will follow the rules which define the single market.

Whatever happened to strong and stable ?
We now seem to have some kind of Tory anarchy.
Boris and his new henchman, Cummings, seem to have made a slight mess of things

Yes, further irony that the Brexiteers wanted to take back control, then hand it to an unelected "career psychopath". One who believes Britain will be an example of civilised, democratic, liberal self-government.

See you all in January.