We (human beings) are too successful in breeding and survival for our own good and with greater numbers, increased life expectancy and the desire to consume more than to guy next door, this "success" will eventualy be our downfall.


Whilst some are still dying though starvation, others have greed which is just bloody horrible and they are happy to stuff themselves, whilst others die and spew out demands to "cut foreign aid" and "look after ourselves first".

If you look at the first generation of the truly wealthy the majority started with very little and they out-wealthed those that started with wealth for the very reason I stated if you stand still you will get passed by. There are exceptions Oligarchs and those in the middle east who own oil but they are in the minority. I would suggest its better to be born bright - the toffs need someone to invest in.


Compared to the industrial revolution not sure technology is moving faster what is moving very fast is medical science and this could be a real problem - is life expectancy going to be 120 in a hundred years?

Civilisation as we know it cannot continue , the developing nations now see the wealth the west has and want their share of it , so it's irrelevant what sort of population stagnation happens in the west

Politicians hope that science can prevent it , but it won't , once the oil starts to go things will become very nasty

As I now think back at the amount of natural resources and waste I personally have gone through in my 58 years , it is frightening , we are a parasite sucking the life out of the planet

Why?

These people you talk about all voted leave and their Facebook profile picture is of them, with “free Tommy” written underneath it

Ya back.

Because fall all its ills capitalism is still the best system yet divised to stimulate innovation and reward risk taking. The idea that the state owns everything and doles out pocket money to its populus doesn't appeal to me.

Socialism is great in theory it doesn't work in practise and the only people who truly prosper are those at the top that live like kings with greater access to the better things and it is in their interest to keep the population under control to protect their priviliged status.

You should have just given up there and then.

I don't think you have to choose either one or the other. I prefer a more moderate interpretation that sits somewhere in the middle and reins in the excesses of either system is best.

Agree a mixed economy works best - you are voting for the degree of control the government has - if you vote Corbyn the government will control more of the economy if you vote Tory less so I prefer the concept of the latter.

Problem with the left as I see it and I may be wrong - most are from well to do backgrounds Corbyn attended prep/grammar school something they would happily deny anyone else the opportunity to access. Abbott/Harman sent their kids to private school but thinks comprensive education is the way forward, David Lammy is another, Umunna anothrt etc.?

Therein lies the issue with the left - its about the elite left having access to things they would readily deny others. You cannot deny the human spirit's desire to better itself through hardwork/risk/innovation.

No, I only ever left the virtual terrace and still do not post on that forum.

Capitalism in its pure form results in a very small number of people owning virtually everything. Take the USA the capitalist champions, the richest 3 people in the USA own more than the poorest 130,000,000. I struggle to see how anyone can support or justify that system.

The state owning everything and giving out pocket money is communism not socialism.

You say socialism doesn’t work in practice, but the NHS is socialism in practice. So is free education and childcare, the police force, the fire brigade, the army. Why shouldn’t other public services such as the railways and other transport, utilities like water, electricity and gas be run in the same way as those organisations, to provide a service for the people, rather than to make profit for the few.

I think the degree of control the government has is exactly the point. Too much and you can stifle creativity and risk taking. Too little and you have too much risk taking leading to financial crises and people left in poverty.

The current choice seems to me to be between two parties that are light years apart from each other. I’m not sure either has the right idea. I’d argue the Conservatives have gone too far now with privatisation of some services and utilities being of no benefit except to a small monied elite that also happen to be Conservative party doners. Meanwhile I think Labour are being too ambitious with some of their plans and risk making a mess of any opportunity they might get by trying to do too much at too big a cost. In both cases I’d say dogma has got the better of them.

About right there , will sort itself out when we see a new realistic centre left leader of the labour party , Chuka Ummuna for me

Can't see that happening unless Labour party membership starts to be made up of centre-ists. At the moment the membership is more Corbynistas. Unlike in the past the membership has a greater say than ever before.

Are you calling the Labour Party out for hypocrisy? For actually being right s while masquerading as do-gooders? That, I can see that... to a point.

Or are you suggesting that Tories want to reward hard work? Or just that they’re more open about being s? Because they don’t make much of an effort to hide it?

At best they might have some patronising affection for those ‘ordinary’ people who know how to tug the forelock appropriately, but basically they despise the general public. Powerful tories work (well, probably direct somebody else to work) to maintain the privileges of the privileged, stamping on any efforts at economic betterment from the rest of society where necessary - or just for s and giggles, in the case of somebody like Boris Johnson. They’ll tell you class war is outdated, but they never disarmed - that’s their lie, but it’s obvious enough that it’s arguably not even dishonest.

Anyhoo, the UK’s still entrenched class system and it’s bloated and poorly incentivised financial system are two local issues, we could look to fix. If we were rich and powerful, in which case we’d be much less motivated to do so, having likely been ruined by our power and wealth.

Then we will be waiting a long time to see a Labour Govt

Why do you say that?

Labour and the Tories are neck and neck in the polls at around 40% each. Historically 40% would win you an election, but with Lib Dem and UKIP vote share completely collapsed, obviously they can’t both win.

When you factor in the Welsh and Scottish parties would back Labour over the tories, that should get them over the line.

An election next year is extremely likely, just look at the odds on offer at the bookies, it’s about evens.

I’m a turkey but I vote for Christmas, off.

The Gov keep stressing that hard work pays.....Of course it does

. I believe anyone who works hard should be rewarded anyway. They use that as if they are doing you a favour. e.g. Imagine you've just been grafting for 4 days on 12 hour shifts,and they say they are rewarding hard work. No they are not,you are rewarding yourself for working bleeding hard for nearly 50 hours. BTW - I'm certainly no Labour supporter either.

Why?

In a capitalist system anyone can rise to the top its about ability and the apetite for risk e.g. Bill Gates, James Dyson, Larry Ellison, Jeff Bezos etc. - none of these ultra rich individuals came from high society they achieved what they have through hard work, innovation and risk. These individuals would have never prospered and neither would society under a Socialist styled regime. A class war is a myth - anyone with the nerve and an idea can prosper - the toffs have to put their money somewhere to generate a return to run their country pile.

One thing is certain if Corbyn gets in personal taxes will rise - the idea that the wealthy who already contribute significant % of all income tax will contribute more will not happen and increases in corporation tax will see more avoidance. So the man in the street will see his/her net income diminish - the money has to come from somewhere to funds all these industries they are going to re-nationalise.

You will see a pandering to the unions - they own the Labour party and they will be expecting payback - you think your trains are bad now you haven't seen anything yet.

Its a simple choice - do you want the state to make more choices for you i.e. where you buy your gas/electricity or do you want the ability to decide for yourself? Anyone who thinks utility costs will come down when/if they are re-nationalised is delusional.

If Labour had a leader like Umanna they would walk the election the only reason they will not trounce the Tories is Corbyn.

Back to the original point will a Labour government re-distribute the national income in a fairer way - not a chance in my view because all monies they generate will be wasted on pampering to pet Socialistic ideals like state-ownership and all the negative externalities that brings.

It's the 1st of January.
Check under your bed this evening before retiring.
Have nice fluffy dreams about your heroic self made billionaires.
W@nk over them if that's your bag.
Stop sh!it!ng yourself about the revolution.

I'm not because it wont happen - keep the red flag flying



We all in it together - of course we are (sic)

Have you been doing your bit at the local food-bank and homeless shelters this Christmas?
It may help to alleviate your concerns for the disproportionate times we are living in.