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Thank goodness Yahweh/Jehovah isn't a murdering god who approves of child rape and killing, and leaves that sort of thing to old Allah.
Most Christians that I've ever met understand entirely that all the three Abrahamic religions have the same god. But then obviously, as in all these matters, they don't have Kirkstaller's experience of a one-on-one with Jesus.
Although one cannot help but wonder why Jesus and his dad don't make sure that they spread this stuff a bit wider.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller" ... You can’t just claim that your continuing the Abrahamic tradition after a 600 year hiatus. .'"
The notion of the Trinity wasn't adopted until c300 years after Christ anyway.
So your criticism applies to your own cult too.
Unless you are a binitarian?
I know, I know, I said I was out of this one ... so sue me. |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"The notion of the Trinity wasn't adopted until c300 years after Christ anyway.
So your criticism applies to your own cult too.
Unless you are a binitarian?'"
Jesus taught this doctrine back in the Gospels a long time before the Roman church labelled it the Trinity.
Not that it matters, given that the church was going from strength to strength anyway. |
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"I object. This is pure discrimination. Durham Giant has repeatedly diagnosed me as a basket case, yet nobody has expressed the slightest worry about it. This is unfair, why is kirkstaller so special that you are worried about him, when you aren't worried about me?'"
As you are a basket case I'll care about you too. Happy now ?   |
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Christians and Muslims do not worship the same god. Muslims claim that they do, they try and hang onto the coat-tails of the established Judeo-Christian heritage, but that does not mean that both gods should be viewed as one and the same, even by outsiders such as yourself.
The problem for Muslims is that simply saying it is the same god just isn’t good enough. You can’t just claim that your continuing the Abrahamic tradition after a 600 year hiatus. You have to show that there are some similarities between the two.
Allah (BTW I am aware that this is simply the Arabic word for god, however I’ll use it to refer to the Islamic moon god) has totally different characteristics to the triune godhead. Even if you just compare the Christian concept of the Father with Allah, the two are massively different.'"
Same God but a different name. |
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Jesus taught this doctrine back in the Gospels a long time before the Roman church labelled it the Trinity...'"
Did he?
I'm taking this as some shaky inference rather than anything you can quote.
Mind you, I don't have access to the direct Hotline that you have.
Quote ="kirkstaller"...Not that it matters, given that the church was going from strength to strength anyway.'"
No, sorry, you can't have it both ways
You said about Mohammed ... "[iYou can’t just claim that your continuing the Abrahamic tradition after a 600 year hiatus)[/i"
As the church needed the conflab in Nicea (sp?) to sort the Trinity out, 300 years plus after Christ, doesn't suggest to anyone that the Abrahamic tradition was anything like stable in the church, so to dismiss Islam on the basis of being 600 years too late is pushing it a bit. |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Am I aone in thinking that there may be a little more to this than is reported by that rag? On the face of it, any lawyer will have a field day at an industrial tribunal'"
No it was my first thought too - you have to be pretty dim-witted these days to believe EVERYTHING that you read in an opinionpaper, there is nothing in that report to suggest that a mere dinner lady did anything wrong at all, which speaks more about the standard of reporting than it does the actual story. |
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Christians and Muslims do not worship the same god. ....'"
In the only relevant sense, they do: both worship a non-existent entity. I.e. nothing at all. Your nothing is not materially different from any other man's nothing.
Quote ="kirkstaller"the Islamic moon god) has totally different characteristics to the triune godhead. ...'"
No, they share one characteristic, that is a total lack of actually existing. There are no other characteristics. |
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Since we've mentioned the good old [iDaily Mail[/i here, has anyone else [url=http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/media_nonmember_requests/a1683415-National-Newspaper-seeking-stories-of-children-sent-to-A-E-inappropriately-by-GPsseen this?[/url
It's enormous fun.
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| Quote ="Mintball"Since we've mentioned the good old [iDaily Mail[/i here, has anyone else [url=http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/media_nonmember_requests/a1683415-National-Newspaper-seeking-stories-of-children-sent-to-A-E-inappropriately-by-GPsseen this?[/url
It's enormous fun.'"
Bet the s still find a story and publish it, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority have called them out on their transparent NHS-bashing. |
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Take religion out of schools give your child a pack up, and leave them kids alone...poor little innocent feckers. Can’t they all just worry and be upset about the Rapture, Judgement Day or whatever it is we all ultimately should be living our lives to avoid of our own free will, and relax and be happy?
We’ll end up with this sort of thing again if we are not careful...
www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946
[challenged to say if he considers anything holy
Henry Drummond: Yes. The individual human mind. In a child's power to master the multiplication table, there is more sanctity than in all your shouted "amens" and "holy holies" and "hosannas." An idea is a greater monument than a cathedral. And the advance of man's knowledge is a greater miracle than all the sticks turned to snakes or the parting of the waters.
I love the mail it gives me something to talk about when I get me hair cut; my hair dresser is a right Thatcherite and all ways stars with “You’ll never guess what they are doing now?” |
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Take religion out of schools give your child a pack up, and leave them kids alone...poor little innocent feckers. Can’t they all just worry and be upset about the Rapture, Judgement Day or whatever it is we all ultimately should be living our lives to avoid of our own free will, and relax and be happy?
We’ll end up with this sort of thing again if we are not careful...
www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946
[challenged to say if he considers anything holy
Henry Drummond: Yes. The individual human mind. In a child's power to master the multiplication table, there is more sanctity than in all your shouted "amens" and "holy holies" and "hosannas." An idea is a greater monument than a cathedral. And the advance of man's knowledge is a greater miracle than all the sticks turned to snakes or the parting of the waters.
I love the mail it gives me something to talk about when I get me hair cut; my hair dresser is a right Thatcherite and all ways stars with “You’ll never guess what they are doing now?” | |
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There are certainly places in the US that are trying to challenge the teaching of evolution even now.
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There are certainly places in the US that are trying to challenge the teaching of evolution even now.
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Quote ="kirkstaller"Yes, I know it’s the Daily Mail. Nevertheless, beneath the sensationalism lies a very concerning truth.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... chool.html
[i‘It's a little bit harsh to sack somebody because of one little mistake,' father-of-three Barry Jackman said. [/i
Not half!
I have a few points to make:
Why the relentless demand for revenge from the Muslim parents?
If the school served only halal meat, why has a humble dinner lady been sacked? Surely she just serves what is put before her?
Why does a multi-faith school cater for Muslim students above everyone else? If my children were told that they were being served halal food, they, and I, would refuse for such a thing to happen. Whilst Christians are free to eat all foods (Matt 15:11), we are advised by Paul not to eat food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 10:23-33). Therefore we should try and refrain from eating such foods as it could be viewed by onlookers and fellow Christians as some sort of endorsement of the Muslim moon god.
Why does this country tip-toe around Muslims?'"
Given that they've all probably been eating non-halal horsemeat for years why sack the dinner lady?
Anyway, I thought the animal rights lobby were going to argue against "inhumane" methods of slaughter. We've already seen in other spheres that "rights" trump religion when push comes to shove, so you are absolutely correct. The lady should be reinstated and the parents told to go and find another school for their kids if they don't like it. Either that or provide them with packed lunches if they want to be so damn fussy. No dount the kids will be on free school dinners so the parents won't want to give them packed lunches. Whay should the taxpayer foot the bill for the eating choices of parents who like to foist such choices on their kids? We need to start telling they groups straight that they can take it or leave it. When in Rome do as the Romans do and all that. |
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Quote ="kirkstaller"Yes, I know it’s the Daily Mail. Nevertheless, beneath the sensationalism lies a very concerning truth.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... chool.html
[i‘It's a little bit harsh to sack somebody because of one little mistake,' father-of-three Barry Jackman said. [/i
Not half!
I have a few points to make:
Why the relentless demand for revenge from the Muslim parents?
If the school served only halal meat, why has a humble dinner lady been sacked? Surely she just serves what is put before her?
Why does a multi-faith school cater for Muslim students above everyone else? If my children were told that they were being served halal food, they, and I, would refuse for such a thing to happen. Whilst Christians are free to eat all foods (Matt 15:11), we are advised by Paul not to eat food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 10:23-33). Therefore we should try and refrain from eating such foods as it could be viewed by onlookers and fellow Christians as some sort of endorsement of the Muslim moon god.
Why does this country tip-toe around Muslims?'"
Given that they've all probably been eating non-halal horsemeat for years why sack the dinner lady?
Anyway, I thought the animal rights lobby were going to argue against "inhumane" methods of slaughter. We've already seen in other spheres that "rights" trump religion when push comes to shove, so you are absolutely correct. The lady should be reinstated and the parents told to go and find another school for their kids if they don't like it. Either that or provide them with packed lunches if they want to be so damn fussy. No dount the kids will be on free school dinners so the parents won't want to give them packed lunches. Whay should the taxpayer foot the bill for the eating choices of parents who like to foist such choices on their kids? We need to start telling they groups straight that they can take it or leave it. When in Rome do as the Romans do and all that. | |
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| Quote ="Mintball"There are certainly places in the US that are trying to challenge the teaching of evolution even now.'"
I think only about 25% of people in the USA believe in Natural Selection so it doesn’t surprise me. |
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| Quote ="Mintball"Since we've mentioned the good old [iDaily Mail[/i here, has anyone else [url=http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/media_nonmember_requests/a1683415-National-Newspaper-seeking-stories-of-children-sent-to-A-E-inappropriately-by-GPsseen this?[/url
It's enormous fun.'"
Mumsnet types cyber-bullying a Daily Fail journalist - lovely stuff. |
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| Quote ="Mintball"There are certainly places in the US that are trying to challenge the teaching of evolution even now.'"
In the interests of balance, there are very few, if any, muslim countries where human evolution is accepted let alone taught. I am no expert but AFAIK orthodox jews reject Darwinism and Buiddhists wouldn't teach it as to them it's largely an irrelevance. At least in the US evolution is taught, even if there are a worrying number of nutjobs increasingly challenging that. |
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| Quote ="Dally" ... why sack the dinner lady? ...'"
Do you actually believe the story as written?
I don't. |
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| Quote ="bren2k"icon_lol.gif
Mumsnet types cyber-bullying a Daily Fail journalist - lovely stuff.'"
Oh, it's a joy.
Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"In the interests of balance, there are very few, if any, muslim countries where human evolution is accepted let alone taught. I am no expert but AFAIK orthodox jews reject Darwinism and Buiddhists wouldn't teach it as to them it's largely an irrelevance. At least in the US evolution is taught, even if there are a worrying number of nutjobs increasingly challenging that.'"
I don't doubt it at all. I suppose the thing is that we sort of expect the US to be a tad more educated/intelligent. |
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| Quote ="Mintball" I suppose the thing is that we sort of expect the US to be a tad more educated/intelligent.'"
Do we realy Mintball....? lol |
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| Quote ="bren2k"What does God do when he's annoyed? I'm vaguely familiar with the wrathful, plague and pestilence type stuff, which I assume is what he does when he's really hacked off, but how does his minor irritation manifest itself?'"
He makes Leeds finish 5th. He then laughs at the unbelievers who so arrogantly pick the Chosen Ones in the heathen ritual that is Club Call. |
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Getting back to the original post, if the school has an Halal policy only, it cannot claim to be multi cultural. I for one would not allow a child of mine to eat it, not because of any religious reasons, but because slaughtered 'allowed' foods in Islam is, I believe a barbaric way to slaughter an animal.
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| Quote ="V6Chuk"Do we realy Mintball....? lol'"
Well they do some good science and tech and films – and since they're so like us and we're so like them, one would assume ...
Oh. |
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| Quote ="rover49"Getting back to the original post, if the school has an Halal policy only, it cannot claim to be multi cultural. I for one would not allow a child of mine to eat it, not because of any religious reasons, but because slaughtered 'allowed' foods in Islam is, I believe a barbaric way to slaughter an animal.'"
Not to in any way condone halal methods, but from what I've heard from some sources (the organisation I work for organises meat inspectors etc) some of the mega modern abattoirs shouldn't be imagined to be sensational places when it comes to animal welfare, simply by dint of how industrialised the process has become.
Again, it's a reason I'm happy to pay a little more to get my meat direct from farmers most of the time; cutting out assorted middle men and therefore ending up with far more of my spend actually going on the piece of meat and not a chain of businesses that all need their profit. |
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Beats me why Kirky bothers asking the opinions of us mere mortals when he has a hotline to 'Big J' himself. Why not ask him? I suppose it must get a tad irritating when he's always right though! It must be crap playing Cluedo with him too.
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| Quote ="rover49"Getting back to the original post, if the school has an Halal policy only, it cannot claim to be multi cultural. I for one would not allow a child of mine to eat it, not because of any religious reasons, but because slaughtered 'allowed' foods in Islam is, I believe a barbaric way to slaughter an animal.'"
How would you slaughter an animal if you couldn't just nip down to the butchers/supermercado to buy meat? |
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