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| Quote Let's not forget that they've removed over 6,000 MH nurses - so a big chunk of their 'extra' 10,000 will only be replacing what we've already lost; and there has been a quiet admission that the 10,000 will be paid for by existing NHS funding - so no new money.'"
That's not true. The Health Sec on Marr on Sunday said there will be additional money made available above the £6.5 Billion set aside yearly for the NHS.
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International Chairman | 18064 | No Team Selected |
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| My care was private but I assume the doctor also practises and was trained within the NHS.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"My care was private but I assume the doctor also practises and was trained within the NHS.'"
As long as you are ok, that is all that matters.
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| Quote ="Exiled down south"That's not true. The Health Sec on Marr on Sunday said there will be additional money made available above the £6.5 Billion set aside yearly for the NHS.'"
[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-latest-mental-health-theresa-may-staff-10000-law-discrimination-depression-a7722046.htmlWe shall see.[/url
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| Quote ="bren2k"[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-latest-mental-health-theresa-may-staff-10000-law-discrimination-depression-a7722046.htmlWe shall see.[/url'"
Amazing.. Labour have to have every single policy costed to the penny or they are vilified as irresponsible with the economy
Tories announce a policy with no costing after nearly doubling the national debt and the vagueness is perfectly acceptable!
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"As long as you are ok, that is all that matters.'"
So you would sacrifice your health and that of your family for someone else - of course you would!!
I pay for private health so I didn't burden the NHS and they could use their value resources part of which I contributed towards on other more needy individuals - altruism - actions speak louder than words ![Very Happy icon_biggrin.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_biggrin.gif)
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| The lack of aspiration to achieve and the hatred of high earning achievers shown by the lefties on here(and by Corbyn) is remarkable.
The days of nationalised industry are long gone never to return. Thankfully the majority of the UK sees that the world is a changing place and we must keep up with it if we want to proser as a nation.
In 4 weeks time we will see the end of the 'peoples party' because it just isn't for the people its for the needy(and lazy).
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"So you would sacrifice your health and that of your family for someone else - of course you would!!
I pay for private health so I didn't burden the NHS and they could use their value resources part of which I contributed towards on other more needy individuals - altruism - actions speak louder than words
'"
More self righteous nonsense.
Give me your address and I'll send you a medal.
Your clearly happy with a poor level of healthcare for some and 5 star treatment for the better off.
Fair society ?, strong and stable ? Boll*****
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"More self righteous nonsense.
Give me your address and I'll send you a medal.
Your clearly happy with a poor level of healthcare for some and 5 star treatment for the better off.
Fair society ?, strong and stable ? Boll*****'"
Just like you - as I said you talk the talk the talk but when push come to shove you are no better an animal than the rest of us.
This country is not perfect - life is not perfect the sooner everyone accepts that you can intervene to a certain point but you will never make everyone equal it is just not possible
Where else in the world would you prefer to live that would offer you what this country actually offers - if you are really sick the NHS offers a service comparable to anywhere in the world.
Is this country fair - to 99% of the population yes it is - there will always be people driving Ferraris or born into money or more intelligent etc. The vast majority of the population go to work, get paid and get on with life. So in your opinion what is not fair and how many does it actually impact?
The polarisation of wealth isn't great but its inevitable is easy to accumulate wealth from a lofty position but this is a country that encourages entrepreneurship and many of the wealthy started with nothing and have accumulated huge wealth through skill, risk taking and hard work - but that is all wrong in your book which is a bizarre notion because without them most people wouldn't have a job.
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| Have you ever travelled to the 'Eastern Bloc', Cuba, N Korea......... There is absolutely nothing we should be looking to copy. All this rubbish that education is great, the health system is world leading are just myths. Equally wealth is spread evenly. Putin is reported to be potentially the wealthiest guy in the world, No not Zuckerburg, nor Gates or other IT yanks!! Remarkable, not forgetting the grub who ruled Cuba and his ships, mansions and islands
I was recently working in the east and was chatting with the guys at work, they absolutely want what we have and not what they've come from. The elderly still look back fondly on communism and equality from there grubby state flats and reflect on the past as the state kept them alive.
Give me your address and I'll send you a medal. I've got plenty don't worry about sending another
Your clearly happy with a poor level of healthcare for some and 5 star treatment for the better off. A great level of health care world renowned and respected. And yes if you can afford a consultant operating on your leg rather than a trainee Dr good look to you. Do you also hate Bentley owners??
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| Quote ="wire-quin"The lack of aspiration to achieve and the hatred of high earning achievers shown by the lefties on here(and by Corbyn) is remarkable.
The days of nationalised industry are long gone never to return. Thankfully the majority of the UK sees that the world is a changing place and we must keep up with it if we want to proser as a nation.
In 4 weeks time we will see the end of the 'peoples party' because it just isn't for the people its for the needy(and lazy).'"
It's quite the opposite of what you suggest. The barriers for aspirational kids from unprivileged backgrounds are higher now than at any point since the war.
Education chronically underfunded and churning out young people lacking basic skills, social care being cut so no help for those that fall off the wagon for whatever reason. Wages not keeping up with inflation over the last 10 years mean those that want to save to retrain or get some security from buying their own property just can't afford to do it.
They are also being deterred from higher education due to outrageous fees for the same education that your much vaunted achievers got for free.
No hatred of high earning achievers but if we are to have future generations of achievers, we need to water the soil that they grow from.
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| Quote ="Exiled down south"Have you ever travelled to the 'Eastern Bloc', Cuba, N Korea......... There is absolutely nothing we should be looking to copy. All this rubbish that education is great, the health system is world leading are just myths. Equally wealth is spread evenly. Putin is reported to be potentially the wealthiest guy in the world, No not Zuckerburg, nor Gates or other IT yanks!! Remarkable, not forgetting the grub who ruled Cuba and his ships, mansions and islands
I was recently working in the east and was chatting with the guys at work, they absolutely want what we have and not what they've come from. The elderly still look back fondly on communism and equality from there grubby state flats and reflect on the past as the state kept them alive.
Give me your address and I'll send you a medal. I've got plenty don't worry about sending another
Your clearly happy with a poor level of healthcare for some and 5 star treatment for the better off. A great level of health care world renowned and respected. And yes if you can afford a consultant operating on your leg rather than a trainee Dr good look to you. Do you also hate Bentley owners??'"
No one is advocating communism! All Corbyn is suggesting is a slight redistribution of wealth. This rampant free market obsession that we have at the moment leads to high immigration and suppresses wages/rights for workers. The whole model of trickle down ecomonics is proven to be a busted flush as the countries wealth flows upwards, rather than into the pockets of those who do that actual work.
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| Quote It's quite the opposite of what you suggest. The barriers for aspirational kids from unprivileged backgrounds are higher now than at any point since the war.
Education chronically underfunded and churning out young people lacking basic skills, social care being cut so no help for those that fall off the wagon for whatever reason. Wages not keeping up with inflation over the last 10 years mean those that want to save to retrain or get some security from buying their own property just can't afford to do it.
They are also being deterred from higher education due to outrageous fees for the same education that your much vaunted achievers got for free.
No hatred of high earning achievers but if we are to have future generations of achievers, we need to water the soil that they grow from.'"
Opportunity for all has never been greater. In the past it was school 'til 16 then work in the local industry. Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's. In this era you can reinvent yourself at an age. The opportunities are out there it just takes motivation. Unfortunately responses like yours just smell of accepted failure, now where is the state to help me. Forget the excuses and get motivated to succeed. The welfare propping up system is gone thankfully.
Last night I was watching some guy on the box talking about how business in some areas are struggling to find the talent for there vacancies. This wasn't just the SE but included the midlands etc It wasn't just tech/engineering companies either, he mentioned plenty of blue collar work.
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| Quote ="Exiled down south" Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's. '"
University education was grant maintained in the 80s. No loans and no fees. Now fees alone are at least 9k a year. Thus university education comes at a cost where it didn't before.
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| Quote ="Exiled down south"Opportunity for all has never been greater. In the past it was school 'til 16 then work in the local industry. Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's. In this era you can reinvent yourself at an age. The opportunities are out there it just takes motivation. Unfortunately responses like yours just smell of accepted failure, now where is the state to help me. Forget the excuses and get motivated to succeed. The welfare propping up system is gone thankfully.
Last night I was watching some guy on the box talking about how business in some areas are struggling to find the talent for there vacancies. This wasn't just the SE but included the midlands etc It wasn't just tech/engineering companies either, he mentioned plenty of blue collar work.'"
That's the problem - used to be that non-academically minded folk could leave school, knowing that they could walk into a job in the factory/pit/steelworks and have a job for life, promotion pretty much nailed on based on years of service rather than merit and strong union representation.
Contrast that to today and these low skilled jobs are now in warehousing and distribution etc. A vast majority hire using agencies or on 0 hours contracts, which give you very little security. Add in the unions destroyed by thatcher and there is very little security for people to build their stall on. Again if you find yourself without work, you face a 6 week wait for any income from the state, leading to rent arrears, missed bill payments etc.
You can have all the motivation you want, but if you are struggling to meet your basic needs, then that leaves little room for upskilling, retraining etc. Giving a bit back (eg free school meals for kids, £10 min wage) will give a bit of breathing room for people to grow and focus on other things than immediate survival.
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| Quote Exiled down south wrote:
Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's.
University education was grant maintained in the 80s. No loans and no fees. Now fees alone are at least 9k a year. Thus university education comes at a cost where it didn't before.'"
It doesn't come at an immediate cost, its paid back over a lifetime when earning a decent crust. Stats show degree qualified personnel earn higher salaries over a lifetime. Why play it down.
Grants are provided for kids at uni through a means tested process.
Forget Mines, Mills etc let's get the kids into Tech, Engineering, Service industries where unions don't exist thankfully, and give them a meaningful and fulfilling career.
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| Quote That's the problem - used to be that non-academically minded folk could leave school, knowing that they could walk into a job in the factory/pit/steelworks and have a job for life, promotion pretty much nailed on based on years of service rather than merit and strong union representation.'"
The world has changed, stop hankering back to the past, we aren't going to return there. The Chinese and Indians have picked up the steel and mines and we have to accept that. Its not Thatchers fault its just the way the world has evolved, they can do it cheaper.
As for unions they are old hat. Militant swines typically led by scousers and jocks.
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| Quote ="Exiled down south"Opportunity for all has never been greater. In the past it was school 'til 16 then work in the local industry. Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's. In this era you can reinvent yourself at an age. The opportunities are out there it just takes motivation. Unfortunately responses like yours just smell of accepted failure, now where is the state to help me. Forget the excuses and get motivated to succeed. The welfare propping up system is gone thankfully.
Last night I was watching some guy on the box talking about how business in some areas are struggling to find the talent for there vacancies. This wasn't just the SE but included the midlands etc It wasn't just tech/engineering companies either, he mentioned plenty of blue collar work.'"
The opportunity may be there to go to University but, the prospect of coming out with debts of 50k plus, frightens many people off.
If you come form a decent family, even with reasonable income, the very though of your kids having such debt, before they start work or looking for a house etc is just plain scary, especially if you have 2 or 3 children.
Of course, the debt is theirs and they may never have to pay it off but, its one hell of a way to start your adult life.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"The opportunity may be there to go to University but, the prospect of coming out with debts of 50k plus, frightens many people off.
If you come form a decent family, even with reasonable income, the very though of your kids having such debt, before they start work or looking for a house etc is just plain scary, especially if you have 2 or 3 children.
Of course, the debt is theirs and they may never have to pay it off but, its one hell of a way to start your adult life.'"
All decided by people who either benefited from a free university education, or who come from backgrounds where money is not even a consideration.
The very definition of pulling up the ladder behind you.
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| Quote ="Exiled down south"The world has changed, stop hankering back to the past, we aren't going to return there. The Chinese and Indians have picked up the steel and mines and we have to accept that. Its not Thatchers fault its just the way the world has evolved, they can do it cheaper.
As for unions they are old hat. Militant swines typically led by scousers and jocks.'"
Im not hankering back to the past - it's a fact of life that work opportunities for the non-acedemically minded are limited and exploititive.
If we are serious about our young people becoming engineers etc, why the hell are the tories chronically underfunding the schools system, while cutting tax for the wealthiest?
As for Unions being old hat, I'm sure you know what conditions were like before unionisation. If not, go to the mining museum or similar. Absolutely critical in winning a lot of the rights we enjoy today. As automation comes ever more into the workplace, we are going to need to band together or all end up redundant.
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| Quote As for Unions being old hat, I'm sure you know what conditions were like before unionisation. If not, go to the mining museum or similar. Absolutely critical in winning a lot of the rights we enjoy today. As automation comes ever more into the workplace, we are going to need to band together or all end up redundant.'"
Again hankering to the past. The unions have done a great job for workers rights and working environments but today we are moving to a service based industry where offices are healthy places to work..... Like UKIP there job is done
How can you fight automation and computers? If they are coming they are coming. We've more people in work today than ever. Why do you get so worried and focus on the negatives.
Quote If we are serious about our young people becoming engineers etc, why the hell are the tories chronically underfunding the schools system, while cutting tax for the wealthiest?'"
Money isn't the answer to everything. Its value for money. More schools are meeting the outstanding or equivalent standards which means more kids are being educated in high quality environments.
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| Every union rep I've met in Australia was a Scot. Hope this helps.
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| The labour manifesto has been leaked. They had the Labour election coordinator on BBC this morning and listening to him was comedy gold. They are completely delusional.
Nationalising many areas including energy, rail.... He wouldn't commit to cheaper fares when pressed repeatedly which is all the commuter really cares about.(surely there has to be a benefit to the punter other than knowing the profits are not going to state owned train companies in Germany or Hong Kong)
Do they not have someone in the team who has the intelligence to realise you need to connect with the 'many and not the few'??
Maybe Corbyns Moral compass points in the right direction but Jesus what a shambles Labour are. It makes the election outcome all the more boring and predictable. Its just about how many seats(and majority) the Tories will get. The good thing is we will have untouchable party in place to take us through Brexit and the 3 years after untouched. Q the lefties.
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| Quote Every union rep I've met in Australia was a Scot. Hope this helps.'"
You're lucky they are not enhanced by Scousers. Union reps are Militant, opinionated, one eyed, g0ges with no concern for the future of the companies. I understand representation but not the way they operate. The good thing is they are dyeing out as they offer very little in this day and age. You only have to look at the Union Demi God Scargill living his life out in luxury in a penthouse in London on the back of the miners unions subscriptions. They have no morals, its all about them.
What is it with Jocks that they need to drop in the word 'Scotland' every second paragraph.
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| Interesting Labour manifesto - re-nationalise the trains, increase CT to pay for everything. Typical Labour all the focus is on throwing money at things and things will improve not how can we run things more efficiently. Education is an interesting battleground.
Re-nationalise Royal Mail, re-nationalise utility companies
Increase union powers - are these people on a suicide mission? You can't bite the hand that feeds you!!
How is all this funded - seriously the CT is delusional as is increases taxation on high earners both will yield negative returns
We should scrap the armed forces - Corbyn doesn't want them to go into action!!
The Labour party can't even keep the manifesto secret until the official launch - the party is completely disfunctional
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