"We looked at every border on this Earth, every border the EU has with a third country - there's simply no way you can do away with checks and controls," its director-general for trade, Sabine Weyand, said in January.

One crossing point alone between Norway & Sweden processes 1,300 vehicles a day taking an average of 20 minutes. And that is a highly developed crossing, not the hundreds of lanes that meander across the Irish border.

It is another Johnson lie &, as with his family & constituents, he doesn't give a toss about the devastating effects of his narcissism.

It was always the plan.

This is a very simple if painful solution - leave with no deal and use WTO terms in the short term. This was discussed by project fear so anyone who says it wasn't isn't telling the truth

This is entirely of our own making - we have a referendum but those asked to implement the result of the vote are all opposed to the result - how could it ever work?

It was brushed off by leavers as project fear plenty of times. In amongst where leavers put forward Norway and Switzerland as examples we should follow and saying only a madman would leave the single market. All lies.

WTO terms may be a lot longer than short term for some markets since WTO terms would be far more favourable to them than anything we might try to subsequently negotiate. Canada is an example that’s been given recently.



It is of the Conservative Party’s making. It was all their idea. Those implementing it now are the most vociferous of the leavers so if it’s a disaster it’s their responsibility.

OK let's make this simple for you, and see if we can get a straight answer from a Brexiteer for once.

1. Do you want a hard border in Ireland?
2. If "no" how will you adhere to WTO rules?
3. If "no" how on earth does leaving our border open to any EU citizen to walk over and into the UK and onto the black employment market fulfill your dreams of Brexit.

Anyone who knows anything about NI or about trade or about immigration will tell you these issues are insoluble.

Crikey, that was an awkward meeting between Bo Jo & Merkel, now Boris is going to solve the backstop conundrum in a month - of course he is!

Nice to know his next cunning move is to abandon the HS2. project, so, once that is out of the way & European Grants are a distant memory, it makes for bleak prospects for the North.

I do like a bit of irony, my favorite was Jimi Heselden of Segway fame, but a load of disgruntled Northerners facilitating this right wing coup takes the biscuit!

At least they'll stop moaning about too many Europeans taking "their" houses, imagine the outcry when said Polish/Bulgarian's/Romania's are replaced by Somalians, Nigerians & the like.

Roll on Halloween, next up a referendum on Capital punishment please, let's go the whole hog.

There are other options, which I think was Merkel’s point, but they’re all softer than May’s deal which wasn’t hard enough the ‘Betrayal!’ Brexiteers who are now very much in the ascendancy in the Government.

So I imagine Boris is going to run off to brainstorm invisible border solutions, completely missing the point.

Aided and abetted by swathes of the RW media, who have dutifully reported Mrs Merkel's gentle sarcasm as a win for Johnson:

"Maybe you'll solve it in 30 days..." <smirk>
=
"Boris wins concessions from Krauts and Frogs!"

No, we had a referendum, without the wit or brains to actually leave in an orderly manner.
WTO rules would be absolute chaos, although certain people just dont see this.

The chaos in the short to medium term would ensure the recession that we are already on the brink of entering but, WTF, fill your boots.
10 years of austerity only affected those with nothing and it wasn't you taking your life, because your benefits had been cut or you lost your job

Some of those making decisions about our lives really ought to try and live with the world that they create - without their millions of course.

The clowns at the top are immune from the changes but, those lower down the shaft, unfortunately, are not

In every instance where a state of events occurs that was previously labelled "Project fear" can we expect 52% of people to bloody apologise for parroting the utterly vacuous "la la la I can't hear you" phrase in the first place?

I'll settle for a sheepish "my bad" at a pinch.

Oh great! millions of tons of waste(from the South) which usually goes to the EU. May now end up being ferried up to the North and land filled.

Remember that they wont take any responsibility for any pain.
It will all be blamed on those nasty Europeans, with Farage constantly chipping in from the sidelines saying that, if we'd dome this his way it would all be sunshine and happiness.
As for dealing with our own waste, we should de be doing this anyway and not treating other parts of the world like our very own waste disposal system.
The Scandinavians had "green" considerations long before it was fashionable over here and we should have followed their lead.
The cure is to produce less waste in the first place and not live our lives without consequence.

Oh shut up you remoaning doomster; all that's required is belief - so if you pull up to the car park you usually use and it's filled with tonnes of putrefying household waste, you just have to *believe* you can still park you car there.

I can't see the big deal - loads of people who have never, and never will or indeed would, fight in a war, have told us that "we" got through World War 2, so we can get through this; that's good enough for me, and it should be for everyone else.

Yes, you are right..where is my Dunkirk and Blitz spirit. We gave Johnny Foreigner a bloody nose then, we can do it now.

Suella Braverman for the government on Radio 4 this morning was asked this exact same question. Her embarrassing, stuttering non-answer was as laughable as Sal Paradise's disappearing act on here.
They haven't a clue how to answer it as it's not fixable. But they're happy to continue b**ls***ting as if they know what they're talking about after their 5 minutes of Googling "Irish border" and "common travel area".

My dilemma after brexit is whether to let my family ride my unicorn down to the food bank, or whether to turn it into a lasagne. Win/Win I suppose.

Thought I'd check in. Nothing much changed. Salty blinkered remainers missing the point entirely. This whole thread is like an Owen Jones monologue, bruises n'all.

As you were.

Since dear old Sal has done a runner maybe you could answer the question about how having an open border in northern Ireland, which therefore has free access from the rest of the EU via ROI, fulfils any concept of controlling immigration or taking back control?

Saying you want something doesn't mean you can then ignore the dilemmas and excuse yourself from the almost impossible choices to be made in implementing the thing you wanted and then whinge that it's not happened yet.

Yeah, it is a bit one-sided.

Unfortunately from a debating POV, the brexiteers don’t seem to have much beyond a few tired slogans or the reassurance that we’ve survived worse. Possibly scoobied by having to defend a position rather than attack one. It’s hard to watch something you hoped would be good crumble into limping mediocrity, taking small comfort from avoiding catastrophic collapse (or not, as the case may be). As a Hull KR fan, it is a lesson i’ve learned well in recent years.

Good trolling on the implied endorsement of violence by the way. Feel free to imagine my impotent liberal outrage that you would write such a thing, you free-thinking scallywag, you.

Hey if it triggered the libs then it's a win.
It's starting to look like that's the only real unifying logic for Brexiteers.

Where did I ever mention anything about border control and immigration control - not an issue for me. Who is going to serve my Pret!! (only joking)

All this scare mongering about movement of goods across the Irish border there is one thing that seems to be overlooked. It is a small island with limited opportunities to move illegal goods unchecked in volume across the water and off the island. The consumption in the island will also be limited as the combined population is tiny.

This country is awash with illegal drugs none of which will have originated within the EU unless the golden triangle isn't for Rhubarb but opium

So what does that say about the security/accuracy of the current EU border controls?

The Irish border is a red herring it is the only thing the EU have to stop a Brexit and its importance has become overblown as a result. How is it that freight from the US or SE Asia can move swiftly into and through the EU but this simply cannot happen across a border in a tiny island in the middle of the Irish Sea

No Cameron and Osbourne both told us if we left we would trade on WTO terms - it was part of project fear - to suggest otherwise is simply not telling the truth.

You seem to suggest that I have never had any adversity in my life - you are wrong but when it happened I didn't sit back and expect the government to bail me out through benefits - I got off my backside and sorted it. Now I accept there are people who simply cannot work through mental/physical challenges but they are in the minority.

I ask the remainers like Ghost 99 - what happens if we have another vote and we vote to leave?

I would accept it with a very, very heavy heart. But I would then wholeheartedly support the inevitable campaign to join the European Union. If we leave, one day a party with a manifesto commitment to join the EU will win a general election.

I admire your optimism, the EU will carry on mainly because the French and German banks have too much investment in the EU. It’s unlikely it will continue in its present format, Italy will eventually break away , France will eventually have a right wing government so won’t continue to be Germany’s lap dog. Once the rest of the countries that pay into the EU realize that the eastern bloc countries will always be on the payroll and will never contribute things will change. Our Irish cousins may also lose its fondness for the EU when the EU adapt a common corporate tax policy. Thus removing the Irish advantage.

If we leave with no deal, we will be using WTO terms for imports and exports, creating inflation and chaos in equal measure.

Regarding my assumption about you not having had to deal with the issues that SOME people, especially those on benefits have had to cope with.
Clearly, I'm not talking about those of us fortunate enough to be able to work and support our families or those "able to get of their backsides and do something about it" I'm talking about those who are far less fortunate and perhaps unable to work.
The current government now employs 3rd party companies, who are paid to "remove" people from the benefits system or slash the value of their income, which, although great in principle, means that certain groups, right at the bottom of the pile are being are being subjected to a level of abuse that is fundamentally wrong and personally, I believe is just as inhuman as the Windrush scandal.

As for a second referendum, I actually agree with you, it would just perpetuate the current situation.