If you want to pretend saying 'you havent heard the last of this' isnt a threat then go ahead, you will look like a moron but crack on.

Meanwhile the rest of world see's the almost cartoonish image of someone uttering that threat.

The only false argument is yours. Please read my post as I did not mention the word "pleb"

However seeing as you keep mentioning "pleb" you should understand that it was this word that was seized upon by the Police Federation, opportunist Labour politicians and the parts of the media as they played their class war card. It has since been regarded as "plebgate" and without this word there would have been no story.

Your whole argument is based on accepting 100% of the police version of events with a complete disregard for any denials from Mitchell. In the light of the recent news for you to stick with this stance can only be down to your political bias and if so your views are prejudiced.

The only thing that Mitchell has apologised for is the use of the "F" word and even that he says was not said to the faces of the officers but more a muttering as he went into Whitehall. All the rest he has denied so for you to state he largely agrees with his accusers is plainly incorrect yet you keep repeating your errors.

You think that the use of an everyday swear word is a more serious offence than the following which in my view is now the real issue which really is serious:

1. A serving police officer, who was an off duty colleague of the 2 officers who made the now dodgy log, sent an email to the Whips office pretending to be a member of the public who had witnessed the event. This email contained an almost duplicate version of the police log and was what caused a Cabinet Minister to resign. This 'lying policeman' has since admited to not being there and fabricating his whole witness statement.

2. An element from the Met leaked the police log to parts of the media for clear political reasons.

3. The Police Federation lied with regard to a meeting with Mitchell

4. The CCTV footage has brought the police log into disrepute because it disproves the police statement in the log that "the members of the public looked visibly shaken". A police log has to be 100% accurate or it cannot be believed.

On the back of Hillsborough, and several other serious instances where the police have lied and broken the public trust I am not confident that an in-house Met enquiry will get at the truth.

no my argument is based on what is accepted to be true by both parties. What is accepted to be true by both parties makes Mr Mitchell look like an arrogant knob whose behaviour fell well below the standards expected of a senior government minister.

Even in hypothetical land where we accept everything bar what is mutually agreed is truthful on Mr Mitchells side and false on the police's side, Mr Mitchell still acted like an arrogant knob, and his behaviour still fell well below the standards expected of a senior government minister.

So "well reported" that not a single news agency or digest has picked up on it?

I did find one quote of Mitchell's in The Sunday Times: "If this can happen to a senior government minister, then what chance would a youth in Brixton or Wandsworth have?"

I wonder if Mitchell read Owen Jones's column in last Thursday's Indy? The strapline read: [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/plebgate-if-the-police-can-do-this-to-a-government-minister-what-hope-is-there-for-black-kids-from-brixton-8426495.html"Plebgate: If the police can do this to a Government minister, what hope is there for black kids from Brixton?"[/url

Obviously wanton plagiarism isn't a sin in Mitchell's privileged world either.

And if you are wondering if I have an anti-tory bias, you need look no further than Ny Bevan's quote in my sig

What, muttering one swear word in exasperation after a long day at work. On a scale of 1-10 of immoral conduct with 1 being low and 10 being high, it's probably a 1, maybe a 2 because police were involved.

Hardly 'well below the standards expected of a senior government minister'.

you can try and rewrite history, but when your tribal politcs has led you to defend someone's behaviour as not below the standards expected when they themselves have admitted culpability then you should probably re-examine how you are forming your opinions, whether they are truly held opinions concluded through a logical examination of evidence or simply the regurgitation of someone else's propaganda to give you a sense of belonging.

I just said it was immoral. Just not 'well below the standards expected'.

That would be an exaggeration. Something which you seem prone to.

Yep, that would draw a line under it. Nobody would be bothered about all the other issues that this has raised? The concerns expressed by the likes of Chris Mullin would be completely ignored?

If you truly believe that the carefully edited CCTV footage is conclusive proof that Mitchell has been exonerated, then you're away with the fairies

The only thing that has been "accepted to by true by both parties" is that Mitchell used the f word, but no agreement on the way it was used. There is no proof of any of the other allegations made by the police against Mitchell. But there is proof that some of the statements made by the police are fabrications and lies.....but not a mention from yourself that this behaviour not only fell below the standards expected of the police but are serious criminal offenses.

You do not know how Mitchell behaved as you were not there and the police statements have been proven to be false in part at least. Yet you still make final judgements and resort to calling him an arrogant knob...a name you may have heard yourself a few times I would guess.

Get some perspective into your argument. The police (and your case) is in tatters and you are reduced you repeating the "below the standards expected" and "admitted culpability" nonsense to describe the use of the F word.

Please let us hear your views on the lies and false statements made by the police. Or is this "socially" exceptable to your political viewpoint. Or perhaps you are trying "to rewrite history" to suit your narrow prejudices.

Irrelevant point unless you can you prove the CCTV was carefully edited. Or are you suggesting the invisible and horrified members of the public have been airbrushed out?

However I am sure you will have noted that the CCTV did prove that the police log was not correct. Therefore it is reasonable to question if the rest of the log was inaccurate too. Any court in the UK would have thrown this case out on this point alone. I was of the opinion that English law required the prosecution to give "conclusive proof" not the defense. Or did the Blair/Brown governments repeal this bit of basic justice and declare it non PC.

Without the lying policeman's fabricated email (1st fake witness/member of the public) there is no proof to substantiate anything in the police log and with so many lies recorded by the police about this affair it is no wonder the public appear to now believe Mitchell and not the police.

Well they're still lining up the chairs on either side of the debate [urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/24/tory-vice-chairman-plebgate[/url in the meantime I have still to see anyone in authority ask or answer the most pertinent question - "where is the real evidence ?"

As tax payers we actually deserve to know the answer to that question, not because we give a damn about Mitchell or the officer who was there but wasn't there, but most importantly we need to know, urgently, if the released video is genuinely the only stuff that they have then what the hell have they spent millions of taxpayers money on when "designing" security for Downing Street when we can all now clearly see that they actually spent about £100 on it.

Now you are just making things up, Mr Mitchell also accepts that he threatened that 'they hadnt heard the last of this' There is no proof the police in the original incident lied or fabricated anything. This is even accepted by the vice-chairman of the tory party.

I know enough about how Mitchell behaved, from what he has admitted, that makes him sound, even in his own words, like an arrogant knob.

Making false statements to an MP isnt what you would expect from a police officer. It doesnt affect in any way the original report.

Thankfully, [url=http://skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/how-the-plebgate-footage-doesnt-show-what-mitchell-c4-claim/someone has taken the time to examine C4s video evidence and blow apart their assertion of exoneration[/url

Looks like selective editing has, as I always suspected, been at play

In Mitchell's defence he is using a bike and that's great for the environment. He'll need to do a bit more though to cancel out fracking.

Would C4/Dispatches deliberately edit the CTTV (or use edited CCTV provided to them) to give a false impression? Essentially fabricate evidence against the police? It would seem an incredible thing to do, particularly after the whirlwind of controversy surrounding Newsnight recently. ESpecially as it would seem to be relatively easy to show that it had been selectively edited. But I suppose stranger things have happened.

No doubt there are an army of technical experts employed by the Met, the Police Federation and the Government, working on the coverage to prove whether or not its genuine. I wouldn't like to be the head of C4 if its proven to be misleading.

Don't know the answer to that one but I did find (in my opinion) their presentation to be very scripted, almost too scripted, almost as if someone else had scripted it, like someone in the Mitchell Support Group for instance - the insistence that nothign could have happened because the figures were too far away from the camera, out of focus and occasionally not even in camera shot was not the sort of conclusion that I'd expect an investigative documentary crew to come up with.

Its the reason for my scepticism over the whole affair, that and the unwillingness of Cameron to get involved, as he could easily, theres no doubt that the video had been edited but I don't think it was CH4, they were just guilty of spoon-feeding the whole thing to the public and stirring the mud up again to the embarassment of those who had hoped that it was all resolved.

you mean someone on the internet who hates the tories, agrees with what you hope actually happened.

No, I meant exactly what I had written, that's why I wrote it.

But thanks for confirming your apparent inability to comprehend the written word

no, you wrote it because they agreed with what you dearly hoped happened. did maggie run over your dog or something?

It was written by someone calling themselves 'Steve Pleb Walker' - obviously someone who is highly independent and in no way desperate to save face after extracting every last ounce of political capital out of the affair in the months leading up to the recent revelations.

It wouldn't be much of a defense for C4 if they hadn't actually edited the coverage, just spoon fed the public.

Surely, post Saville & McAlpine, the programme would have been subject to review at a very high level within C4? I just can't understand why they would choose to take on the police on a matter where the evidence can be so easily verified, one way or the other. Only a moron would believe that they could put out doctored coverage and not expect the police to be all over it.

It's also easier for a broadcaster to take on the police than the state. Let's be honest with ourselves though, you don't even have to watch [iThe Thick Of It[/i these days to understand just how much the government tries to shove its propaganda down our throats. They continually lie and distort the news in order to remain in favour with the electorate. It's been done for centuries so it's a bit naive of us to think they wouldn't get involved in press releases. In fact, the vast majority of political news stories come from press releases these days.