A Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. Something, both you and Cronius have easily acheived over the last 4 or 5 pages. Shall we have a quick look and see?

let's start with my opinion on page 15, "That there was more to his (about this tragic woman) and it would all come out in the wash." Which prompted you to get out your knitting needles and begin the construction of your straw man with the rather bizarre observation of [iI'm sure you do, but what, if you're implying you have a good idea? I have already seen nutty conspiracy theories that the nurse was assassinated and it's all a cover-up, but then nowadays it is de rigueur for the lunatics to come out of the asylum for a while whenever there's a good conspiracy to be theorised.[/i

The error of your ways was pointed out you by Durham who highlighted your misundertanding, which somehow prompted Cronius to add his frankly bizzare offering of [iYou're reading into it what you want to see. But then everyone loves a conspiracy, don't they?
The House of Windsor bumping off a nurse for putting a prank call through. Really?!! It seems a whole new level of idiotic batsh*t lunacy has emerged.

[/i

Indeed it has my friend! Feel free to step up and take the applause as co author!

It gets better dear reader. FA then obliges with [i
But when the sad facts are established at inquest, feel free to join the OP in a denouncement of the coroner as just a lackey in the establishment cover-up.
[/i




I then take the opportunity to further clarify my thoughts, and Durham points out, quite correctly that Cronius and FA appear to be creating an arguement where none exists.
Which prompts the riposte from Cronius [i
Yes, details will emerge in an investigation. Bears also sh*t in woods. But it ain't gonna be 009 with chloroform and a rope.[/i

FA then returns to his task of Straw Man building with [iIn the face of the bleedin' obvious, I find completely speculative suggestions that she may have been killed to be the worst sort of baseless conspiracy speculation of which so many seem to be so fond'
[/i

Whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that it is only him and Cronius, who are banging on ad naueum about any kind of conspiracy! 'Kin unbelievable!

Cronius adds in reply to Durham [iIn your words: "I dont think there is any conspiracy but there is more to this story".
Why do I feel I need to add a 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' at the end of that?
"I'm not racist but..."

..."

[/i

yep, that straw man is just about complete. Just this final offering from Worzel [iYours will be an MI6 agent with a chloroform-soaked hankie, no doubt.[/i

So there we have it. Not a perfect straw man fallacy.....would we really expect that from these two? Perhaps I have credited the pair of them with more wit than they have shown, and it is more of a regurgitation of their own bizarre theories rather than a wilful missrepresentation of what was put before them. Does it really matter?



From a Master Debater such as you, that is a very valid point......

Give over ranting. Your first post (bizarrely) claims that the hospital will cover up their errors with news of the death, and then questions the manner of the death itself "what reasonably normal person kills themselves over a work incident". You then end with the bold and mysterious statement: "there is a lot more to this to come out in the wash".

The implications are there for all to see - despite your protestations to the contrary, you think there are sordid details and possibly mismanagement, a cover-up, etc all to emerge.

That your FIRST thought was to suggest hospital cover-up says a lot about your mindset. You want to see a cover-up, you like the idea of collusion and (yes, I'll say it) conspiracy. You cleverly play the conspiracy line down in your posts but then sneak it in and leave suspicion in the air. You attempt to misdirect by positioning yourself above conspiracy theories but can't resist going on to claim "there is a lot more to this to come out in the wash"....not just a few details, but "a LOT more". Dark and mysterious.

What, exactly? You've failed to answer that. What will come out in the wash?

All the facts have yet to emerge.

I keep telling you what will come out in the wash
the issues about her mental health
whether there were contributory factors to her suicide,
the role her managers played in the process or not etc etc.
I keep pointing this out yet you seem to keep suggesting there is nothing else to come out and that it is all a conspiracy theory.That is what will emerge in the wash.

However you are are a fine one to accuse others of jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Like the time you sympathised with the South African rugby player who went out and murdered three civilians for raping his daughter. Which you posted all over this board

Only problem was, the guy had never had a daughter.
You did not let the facts get in the way then.

Not only are you Cronus leader of the titans but you are the DELPHI Oracle. The all knowing , all seeing indavidual who knows all the facts that are worth knowing and can make your judgements on that .

Your opinions are as reliable as looking at a goats entrails to forsee the future.

What? Where have I said this? [iI'm[/i suggesting it's a conspiracy theory??? Are you thick or just plain ignorant? Do you actually understand the English language? For the second time - do you actually read the posts you reply to?


Again - what the hell are you going on about?? Smoking camel sh*t again? Losing the argument so you've decided to throw the conversation all over the place?

How about instead of wasting valuable server space with this moronic drivel, you go back and answer my response to you earlier.

You are the one accusing everyone else of having a conspiracy theory because we do not have the full facts.

When you have to resort to insults you have really lost the arguement.

Please tell us why those who still think there is a lot of information to come out are conspiracy theorists which is where the argument started.

You just keep changing the nature of the discussion

Look, when you post such utter tripe it's only worthy of insults.

But hang on - so do I think there's a conspiracy, or am I accusing you of thinking there's a conspiracy? You seemed to be muddled because you've said two different things in your last two posts.

Anyway, I've covered it several times in intimate detail. You and rumpelforeskin both claim not to believe there is some conspiracy or cover-up and that you are above such theories, yet you both continue imply some conspiracy or cover-up in every post you make.

If you don't understand by now or are choosing to ignore my posts to just carry on banging away with this question, there's no point bothering. Go back, read what I've said to you and rumpelforeskin and let it soak in.

I have been clear in that i do not have enough information about a number of matters which i keep asking you about
What was her Mental Health
Were there other factors that contributed to her suicide
did management deal with it properly.

You seem to think these are not important issues. Most reasonable peole would before they jump on a bandwagon.

If they are important say so, if you know the answers say so, if you think we do not have this information then surely you agree there is more information to come out.

It is simple really it is just you dont seem to understand it

It is simple. Answer the questions and stop accusing everyone else of being a conspiracy theorist.

I notice that you did not answer the comment about you defending a racist South African killing three people who raped his daughter when he did not even have a daughter.

What a ridiculous thread, indicative of the pathetic nature of The Sin Bin these days.

For what it's worth, I kind of agree with DG and rumpelstiltskin in that there are likely to be more to come out in this. No cover-ups, conspiracies or any of that sort of tinfoil hat rubbish. Simply more facts to give a clearer picture of why it was this woman ended up doing what she did. Personally I don't believe being on the receiving end of this prank was the reason (or sole reason, at least) behind it. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion to hold and certainly not one of a conspiracy theorist...

OTOH

You two need to pay closer attention to your hymn sheet!



Who said they were? Those “who still think there is a lot of information to come out” are numpties, because they are doing no more than stating the bleedin’ obvious, as if it was some marvellous insight.

Whereas the conspiracy theorists, OTOH, are those suggesting a conspiracy.

It is (obviously) possible to be in both categories, but the two are equally obviously not both the same thing; as you are having endless trouble understanding this, those who think there is a lot of information to come out, might also be chicken sexers. But it doesn’t inevitably follow.

I answered your questions on page 17.

You ignored it.

For the third time - do you actually read what you're responding to?


WTF? You're dragging up something from 18 months ago? What planet are you on? Tell you what, if you can find where I said EXACTLY that I'll answer it. Until then wind your neck in.

Liar, It was your WHOLE original post “which prompted” my comment on what you had posted. You are trying to squirm out by suggesting I was referring to that sentence in isolation, when you bloody well know it wasn’t. That last bit was on the end of:

Now stop being disingenuous and selectively quoting your own drivel. Those were and are YOUR WORDS, in the same post. It was your post, READ AS A WHOLE, that prompted my observation.

In the whole post you said:

As well as being a bizarre first thought, it’s obvious what you’re implying. You are using a basic literary device which screams to the reader, “NO, THIS WAS NO STROKE OF LUCK FOR THE HOSPITAL, HOW NAÏVE YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE TO BELIEVE THAT”

Clearly meaning you don’t believe, however she died, that she killed herself over a work incident. Taken together, you think it was a very convenient death for the hospital (because, you said, their failures “could now be conveniently forgotten in the witch hunt ..”).

Coupled with your first thought, it is crystal clear what you are suggesting, and it is in that context that your closing remark is explained. The above is what you actually SAID..



Well, let’s pause for a moment, so you can tell me what you actually MEANT, if not the above.

My breath is bated.

Mmmmm!

Oh well, the post mortem result states that the nurse hanged herself. A note from her for her family was also found at the scene. There can be no debate about her death being a suicide now.

A bit more detail in the Mirror about why the family are so angry at the hospital:

Well, well. Informed comment predicted there would be more to come out in the wash, and we now find out that there were three seperate suicide notes left by this disturbed person.

The longest of which is reported as a massive whinge against the Hospital Authorities. I do hope this doesn't set off the usual suspects on another knee jerking 20 page conspiracy diatribe....

Maybe you should have a word with the authorities, it seems a great waste of public money to adjurn the inquest until March 2013. What's the point when you already know what the conclusion is?

Straw that perhaps broke the fragile camels back?

Your balloon really popped at the little bit that's comeout so far, didn't it? As I've tried to point out to you, normal people already knew that the full wash will only come out during the inquest. The ony question is why some people are so thick that they think stating this bleedin' self-evident fact is a ground-breaking insight.


Wrong again. Do you have reading or comprehension issues? We have not been given much detail, but it was reported that she left two notes relating to (a) the presenters and (b) the hospital management; a third note was said to be instructions to her family, concerning her funeral arrangements etc. However, it does pop one of your balloons ("What sort of reasonably normal person kills themselves over a work incident"icon_wink.gif. Increasingly obviously, the sort of reasonably normal person that was Jacinta Saldanha.


Are you saying this because hopefully at last you are happy to accept that this is indeed a reasonably normal person who has killed herself over a work incident, (better late than never) or are you still implying that her death was "very convenient"" for the hospital authorities? If you are sticking to your guns, then it was a bit remiss of them not to get rid of that note, wasn't it?




... says the original conspiracist as his biplane, "Dark Hints", heads for the ground in flames. You couldn't make it up. Yes it would be merciful if you would accept your "first and second thoughts" were nonsense, and withdraw them. Doubt it will happen though.

Even now you still try to defend your indefensible position. =#FF0000Your view simplified is that It was so obvious that more would come out in the wash that it was a ridiculous and obvious thing to say

Yet when someone states the obvious you start an 8 page thread accusing someone of stating the obvious of being a conspiracy theorist.
Yet the reality is simple as more comes out in the wash we will see the truth or more of the truth about what happened such as the contents of letter NO2 which details how Ms Saldanha felt about the hospital managements actions.

That will tell us about where the responsibility or blame lies maybe a little less against the two DJs and a bit more about the role of the hospital managers and the role of the radio station managers.


At the time of RS post many on here were quick to blame the two DJS solely for what happened. Some of us thought that was a bit simplistic.


Sounds like there is still a lot more to come out in the wash or am i stating the obvious and likely to be labelled a conspiracy theorist

Do keep up FA.

If you were asked by the nice nurse how many jelly babies were on your bedside cabinet, and there was a red one, a black one and an orange one, take a moment now, what is the answer?

Come along now, it's not a trick question...... yes, it's THREE. Good boy!

And if nursey was to replace them with the same number of your favourite toys?....yes, that is also THREE!

Similarly, if you were to substitute those for letters scrawled in your bestest handwriting to Santa?......No, it doesn't matter what you have put inside the envelopes....you'd like a big red fire engine ....yes, you DO sound just like the siren on one of them,... but if we could just concentrate a little bit longer?.... that would also be THREE!

Good Boy. Doctor Rumpel is pleased with your progress today.

Not a view, a statement of simple fact. And thus in no need of "defence" any more than stone needs defence against being called stone.


Are you a moderator? Seriously? Then you need to get a better hang on how a forum works. I "made a post". Neither I nor anyone "starts an 8 page thread". Threads run into pages due to the number of people who are interested in the subject and who make posts on the subject. The more interest, the more replies, the more pages. So what are you talking about?

That aside, it is ironic - and makes you look really stupid - to say I started the thread. I only came in on PAGE ELEVEN, whereas you yourself had been regularly expounding your views for the previous ten.


Are you too thick to stop conflating those two separate things however many times I point your error out? I did not "accuse" R. of being a conspiracy theorist, his post did that for him.


And? All I took issue with was R's nutty dark conspiracy hints. The seeming fact that Mrs Saldanha was upset with hospital management is irrelevant to his supposed conspiracy. Or indeed to my comments, since I've pointed out more than once that there was reason to believe she was upset with the hospital management.


Indeed it may. But as from the outset I have personally attributed the lion's share of the blame to the radio station managers, rather than the DJs, and still do, why are you telling me?


Indeed. Except you forgot that I was probably the first of "us" to say that?


You really need to stop conflating those two separate issues in your head. It is not worth pointing it out to you again. Only you can choose to finally grasp the point, if you wish.

I'll bet you are even quite pleased with this embarrassing drivel. I hope it doesn't get deleted as it speaks volumes about the poster.

So the nurse who killed herself apparently left a note blaming the two Djs for her killing herself. No live, the only person to blame is yourself, you selfishly killed yourself.

Its a point of view I suppose.

On the other hand the rugby league world is well aware of just how fragile the human mind can be and how close the tipping point is in some people when reasoning goes awry and a person who yesterday was sharing a pint with you in a pub and laughing and joking without a care in the world can the next day take their own life leaving family behind.

I think we're all forgetting thw most important thing here; How does Kate feel about it all?