Would have thought that has already been demonstrated beyond any doubt.

No, it's not.


No, but you do have to satisfy the requirements of section 2(2) of the Animals Act 1971, and they have been confusing and defeating judges and lawyers for decades now. Why the fookin thing has never been repealed and re-enacted in at least some Earth language does beat me. I'm probably the only person who understands it, and even then only for about half an hour at a time, and then its gone



But on the limited info we have, I would say there is a decent chance of a claim. The question might be more whether it's worth making it, as (a) how do you find out who owns the dogs an (b) critically, is there any insurance policy that would pay out if a claim is successful?


No chance, because no crime of violence has been committed.

Re no crime of violence being committed. I have known people get compensation for psychological injuries.

Looks as though those involved have suffered some psychological injuries, and the girl suffered injury to her hand. Would this not be enough? (I seem to recall a £1000 threshold that you had to cross and that trivial injuries were not compensated).

I note the woman has been charged, presumably with having a dangerously out of control dog or something to that effect. Thus I guess an argument could be made, however spurious, that the OP did suffer as the result of a criminal act.

Such a sad tale , and I feel genuine pity for the family involved .Unfortunately these breeds of dog are becoming very popular as a status symbol among the chav fraternity , and thus such events are becoming more commonplace . There really is no need for such type of dog to be kept as a family pet . I wouldn't trust one with my kids . In fact I recently disposed of our Lhasa Apso , Tinkerbell ( AKA rat dog), because she bit my 5 yr old daughter . Dogs of any size can be dangerous , but breeds such as bull terriers can be lethally so .What kind of an eejit lets one run loose unmuzzled in a park ?

Me. I have a staffy cross who is more interested in chasing squirells then children. I only have them on extending leads in the Country Park because of rabbits. My staffy cross is not a status symbol and I don't agree with your "no need for such a dog to be a family pet" comment. What does that mean? We go through this every few years, it was once the GSD, then the Rottweiler, now the Staffy. I don't encourage my girl to "rough house", nor do I encourage her to play games where she has to nip/mouth. We have boundaries at home, she is allowed to go on the furniture and the bed, but if I tell her to move, she will do it instantly. She is not allowed to "harass" another dog, a quick sniff and if either dog initiates play then off they go and play. If either or one of the dogs isn't interested, I call her back and we go on our way.

I agree that any dogs can be dangerous, but to suggest bull terriers can be lethally so, so can Rottys, GSD's, Mastiffs etc etc just so happens the staffy is the "dog of the moment".

We need to end BSL (breed specific legislation) then innocent staffy and staffy crosses wouldn't get taken off the streets by a dog warden who was "just passing" (As shown on the One Show a few weeks ago).

And you can't have all bull breeds muzzeled either. That will make the situation worse. When a dog is muzzeled it can't defend itself, nor can they socialise properly so you will have lots of unsocialled dogs running lose which is ok in the park but not when the muzzle comes off at home.

The staffy is not called a nanny dog for nothing. It is the most loyal dog to its owner. IMO its the owners that need the training as well as the dog.

Time to reintroduce the dog licence, except based on the ability of the owner to control the dog rather than ability to pay.

If you have to show you're competent to own a car or a gun, why not a dog?

If it has the consequence of reducing demand for dogs and hurting the puppy farming industry in the pocket, even better.

I agree in principle but the problem with that Andy is every law abiding, responsible dog owner will comply (same if you make microchipping law) but I can't see every hoody wearing, gang member, chav complying. It will also be very hard to police.

In my opinion, you should be made to go on a 6 weeks training course when you get a dog. The breeder or rescue should only legally hand the dog over to you once you have the certificate to say you have completed the basic training course. I have even gone further than that, my two have passed their bronze Kennel Club Good Citizen Award and we would have gone on to do silver and gold had I not go too ill.

I agree more needs to be done about puppy farming. If no one bought a dog from them, they would disappear. We need more awareness about puppy farms and the dangers of buying a dog from them.

They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. There really is no need for dogs that have been specifically bred for aggression and violence to be permitted as pets. Kill them all. I just don't understand why anyone would want to own the pitbull/Staff type breeds anyway, given they are such a massive symbol of chav culture.

So you would ban the GSD because the police use them for agression and to stop criminals? Have you ever owned a bull breed? Obviously not. I didn't rescue my staffy cross because I am a chav, I rescued her because she was going to be put to sleep within hours because her 7 days were up at the pound. And I'm so glad I did because she is the most loyal and loving dog you've ever known.

Thanks for tarring us all with the same brush

I'm trying to help with a specific question in this specific case, not write a book on every possible aspect of the CIC scheme. If you want to go off-topic, if someone set an attack dog on me, intending that it attacked me, and whilst it didn't catch me, I suffered post traumatic stress, then technically I could claim, but that is because it would still have been a crime of violence.


Probably enough IF she could claim, but you only get to that once you qualify by having been the victim of violent crime.


But not that it was a crime of violence. As I said, it is not a question of a criminal act, but suffering a "crime of violence". So, if the dog had been deliberately set on the victim with the intent of causing her injury, yes, if not, no.

German Shepherds are actually a good example of a dog that has had good publicity and bad publicity for decades - they changed the name of the breed to "Alsation" during the war years to prevent association with the hun



As its name suggests its actually a shepherd dog and not a dog that was originally bred for fighting and other than having a natural guarding instinct for its "pack" it shouldn't have any aggresion in its nature at all.

What it is, is an intelligent animal that can be easily trained to do whatever its owner wants it to do, I have a couple of relations and a close friend who are/have been dog handlers in the Police and RAF - the Police specifically don't want aggressive GSD's, its one of the things that they look for in a puppys first year (most UK Police forces breed their own dogs or use specific breeders now and don't accept gift dogs), what they want is an obedient dog who will bark and look aggressive on command and importantly, stop doing so on command, the dogs do this because to them its a game and they get rewarded for doing so, in the same way that spaniels don't actually like looking for drugs, they do it because they get a reward when they find some, its a game.

All of which is to say that the GSD can be trained to act in an aggressive way, can be trained to seize a person and hold them (try and drag your arm from a 40kg dogs mouth when he thinks the game is to try and not let go

), but then will switch off when commanded to - if a police dog won't release on command or if it remains agitated after being recalled then it will fail its one year assesment.

None of which applies to the GSD's that the Military Police use



One of my brother-in-laws was badly mauled by one of the base dogs when he was stationed in Germany simply for entering its cage with some food, the difference in the RAF is that they DO accept "gift dogs" and so have no history of the nature of the dog, they also encourage aggression as their dogs have a guarding task rather than crowd control or man-capture, and importantly the dogs are base dogs, they are kenneled on base every night and do not have the same handler from one day to the next - and when they reach seven years of age they are "retired" with the aid of a vet and a syringe of anesthetic, as re-homing them is not an option, nor is repatriatating them with the cost of quarantine.

a Staffordshire went for my young cousin once on the field that my grans house backs on to, I was about 9 so she must have been 3 or 4, it jumped up at her pushing her over and jumped on top of her, before it got anywhere near her face my older brother absolutely booted it(he's no goal kicker but he was a prop). My Grandad who ran out the house ended up in a shouting match with the dogs owner because it was our fault that the dog was near us apparently. The owner was the dodgy d1ckhead of the neighbourhood and had left the dog to play with his kids outside. His kids turned out pretty dodgy too so this points towards the whole bad parents and bad dog owners sort of thing.

Like others have said, more needs to done about owners of dogs and not just the dogs, mates of mine have dogs you would consider as aggressive/violent breeds and they're all loving dogs, obviously if you were violent towards these dogs they would stick up for themselves, like most dogs would. People need to learn to control their dogs and take responsibility for the wellbeing of their dogs and anyone it may pose a danger to - if someone starts annoying your dog, tell them.

As an owner of a Springer spaniel and a soon to be Father for the first time, stories like yours really affect me and you have all my thoughts.

To lose a member of the family in that fashion must be horrific. I darent even mention your story to our lass for fear of upsetting her

Regarding the discussion about certain dog breeds, in my experience there is no such thing as a bad dog and the dogs behavior is the result of its owner. If a puppy is not socialised with other dogs then it can lead to aggression in later life.

Some breeds are certainly more capable of doing damage but all dogs can have that aggression if not properly trained and controlled.

One option that i would certainly investigate would be the practice of neutering or spaying dogs that will not be used for breeding. If the dog licence was to be re-introduced then that could perhaps be a pre-requisite of ownership for everyone but registered breeders.

I would not normally post sympathetic messages to forum members, but your story has really touched a nerve. What ever the outcome of your ordeal. I wish you and your daughter especially the very best.

Top shout.

Quote ="Saddened!"They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. .'" what like jack russells and collie types!!! www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Gr ... story.html to the OP. i hope you can get some sort of justice for your lovely dog and also your daughter.

Quote ="Saddened!"They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. .'" what like jack russells and collie types!!! www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Gr ... story.html to the OP. i hope you can get some sort of justice for your lovely dog and also your daughter.

Rather than dog licenses which are hard to police, surely it's time for all breeds of dog, dangerous or not, to be muzzled in public?

Now you think coppers have time to go round arresting unmuzzled dogs?? A relative (elderly, female, alone) called police repeatedly on 999 to report a number of persons breaking down her door at 3 am and the police arrived at 8.35. Good luck with the "seen a dog without a muzzle on" call.

Hundreds of thousands of dogs just roam free, their owners don't give a sh?t about them or any dog law, you bring the law into disrepute if you pass measures that you know in advance there is not a cat in hell's chance of remotely being possible to enforce.

It also makes as much sense as banning cars because hundreds are killed on the roads.

Terrible story, such a sad loss.

My Dad has a 6 month old Jack Russel puppy and he meets up with a couple of older chaps in the park on an evening, one particular evening my Dad was playing golf so never made it, transpired it was a good job a greyhound attacked and killed one of the old chaps spaniel and the old chap was injured trying to save his dog, was all heartbreaking and the police are involved not sure what has happened to the greyhound as yet.

I am the owner of 2 lovely staffies who are very sociable and fine with other dogs, I let them off their lead on river bank but always lead them up if other people/dogs are approaching who they do not know, I can retrieve them within seconds even if other dogs are about this is an important skill every dog owner should master!!
The problem for me is not always the dogs but stupid owners who get certain breeds as trophies and do not raise or train their animals right.

No, like I said in one of my previous posts, dogs are social animals, using their sense of smell to greet other dogs. You take away that by muzzling and you will create all sorts of problems. Dogs that can't defend themselves, dogs that can't greet etc etc. You will make the problem of unsociable dogs 10 times worse.

Our dog pulls like a train when on a lead, he's fine without one, simply walking by my side and if he does get a little in front, a quick call brings him back. He's got a Halti but I don't like using it on him, simply because the amount of control that it immediately brings must be doing something detrimental to his snout.

If anyone is still unsure of just how much a dog loves his owner, here's a simple test. Lock your wife and your dog in the boot of the car, open it again an hour later and see which one is happy to see you.

I don't need to do that - I just walk in the door every evening at 6pm and get the message every time.

I bought one of those for our German Shepherd, he only pulls on the lead when we're heading back for home or the car (christ knows how he knows), but he weighs in at just under 40kg and is a big lad so when he pulls on the lead its bloody exhausting for me, I bought a Halti to use and yes it does the trick but causes him so much distress that I don't use it anymore, as a rescue dog he already has issues with abandonment and I don't want to screw around with the trust that we've managed to build up with him by punishing him when out walking.

Suppose it's whatever floats your boat.
I could quite easily live in a dog free world.

The only one's I've ever personally come into contact with are one that bit me when I was younger.
One that my flat neighbour had years ago that barked incessantly when he was left alone..... And another that used to go fooking barmy every time I used to attempt to get frisky with it's owner.

They aint for me I'm afraid.

My Springer although not the biggest of dogs (25kg), is very barrel chested and is very muscular up front. He really pulls when approaching any area he knows is for running around on. I tried a similar lead to a halti on him and it worked like a treat, but the poor little bugger was rigid with fear when i put it on him. It robbed him of all his enthusiasm and instead he began to plod along beside me, totally uninterested and looking quite uncomfortable.

The worst thing about the lead was that it really affected his recall when on the field. He knew that if he returned to me, there was a fair chance that i would be sticking the dreaded lead back on him. Instead he used to scarper and i would end up chasing him round the field Benny hill style.

I stopped using it after about a month or so, but it took a while to get his trust back. His recall now is fantastic, which is essential bearing in mind that Springer's are not the type of dog who will happily walk along side its owner gently enjoying the surrounding nature. Instead he prefers to banzai through every bush, puddle or pond within a 200 yard area.

He is from a line of "out runner" working spaniels, and apparently there job was not to flush, but to go long range and retrieve . I am more than happy to let him roam up to 300 yards away, so long as his recall is instant. The Halti style lead caused more problems than it was worth.

I use a version of the halti called the Dogmatic. It looks more like a horses head collar than a normal Halti. I have to use them though because having arthritis is my hands and wrists and can't have them pulling me. No matter how hard and efficient you train the recall, as soon as my two see a squirrel/cat/rabbit they would be off throwing me to the ground.

I use them when we come off our field onto the road and down the old railway line where there are plenty of squirrells. All the other times they are either off lead or on extending lead.

At the end of the day, it wouldn't be my first choice of tool to use continuously, only as a training aid, but in my case I either use the head collars and we can all go out for a walk safely or I don't take them out at all.