You are absolutely right this is a trap to try and blame the monumental cockup on Corbyn and Labour. In the 2 years since article 50, May hasn’t even been able to get her cabinet to agree on a plan, never mind her own party to back a plan of hers.

Come on, you've seen our negotiations with the EU and the stalemate which "we" have arrived at.
Do you really rate the UK's chances of obtaining better deals around the world than the EU have managed.

Also, how long do you think these will take ?? Some of the hard line Brexitiers seems to suggest that it was akin to on line shopping but, any serious trade deal will take years - unless we sell ourselves on the cheap ??

Anyway, it may all be for nowt as May, having totally lost the support of her cabinet, is now begging for help from Corbyn.
Who would have thought that this would be her next move

You are talking about the worst PM we have ever had who has been a disaster at every job she has ever had. I could negotiate a better deal than her - it is no wonder she can't keep her party together she has under mind them at every opportunity but rather than lead by example has simply crumbled as soon as the pressure has been exerted.

As I asked before show me an example of where the EU have negotiated a better trade deal?

Corbyn is so stupid he is walking into a trap - he can't win here: No brexit is political suicide and he will get the blame for not supporting the withdrawl agreement, a soft brexit and a huge volumes of voters will feel betrayed.

No - the remainers said it would be immediate - even you have to admit that hasn't happened

So, what sort of Brexit will not have people screaming betrayal, whilst at the same time sticking to the Good Friday Agreement and continuing to treat NI the same as the rest of the UK?

There is no example of the EU negotiating a better trade deal than the UK as we have, for the last 40+ years, come under their umbrella.
The argument for the EU is whether as a trading bloc, they have struck the right balance between protecting their member nations, whilst achieving "good" deals with other nations and on balance, I would suggest that they have.

Of course, there will be instances of certain trading sectors in particular nations where someone may not be happy but, the overall picture is ok and we know where we are.
The "leave" brigade want us to believe the scmidt that comes out of the mouths of Boris "two faced" Johnson, Gove, Farage etc.
I dont like Corbyn's politics but, even he is more honourable than these people, who are bothered about NOBODY, other than themselves.

I didn't ask whether the EU had negotiated a better deal than the UK I asked for an example of where the EU had used its size to negotiate a better deal than a smaller nation. The US is an example of where the EU falls down when negotiating trade deals. Do you honestly think the UK could not get the same/better deal in quicker time?

Regarding the Irish border problem, the DUP not supporting any of Teresa May proposals may ultimately bring in a Corbyn government. It’s a well known fact both Corbyn and McDonnell have always supported the movement for a United ireland. Any kind of movement towards this could potentially trigger another Scottish referendum. I always assumed that whoever paid the piper called the tune. Bearing in mind the money Teresa May has shoveled towards Northern Ireland it’s obviously not the case.

If May thought a bit of money would permanently win over a bunch of medieval fascists then she is even more stupid than I gave her credit.

The DUP are hard-nosed and tough to deal with - if she thought that bunging them a few quid would secure their votes, then she's clearly spent no time researching their history; or, it demonstrates the level of desperation when her snap election utterly backfired and reduced the Tories to a minority, relying on Arlene and the ERG to prop her up - hence the dogged determination to stick to the red lines that kept the more swivel-eyed of JRM's cabal of lunatics tentatively on board.

With regards her offer to Mr Corbyn - it's 2 years too late, and is clearly a trap; if not, the hardline Brexiteers in the cabinet would have walked out of that long meeting and resigned on the spot - and I'm sure JC and his team will recognise that. If I were him, I'd insist on live-streaming it, so she can't claim to have been conciliatory and reasonable, but that nasty Marxist wouldn't play ball.

Once again, Corbyn has played a blinder - he's now the de-facto PM.

I don’t think her offer to Corbyn is a trap, more of an act of desperation. If by some remote chance she can get any kind of concession from Corbyn a large section of the Tory party will vote against it. Which brings us back to the harsh fact that none of any proposed deal can win a majority vote. The deal breaker would be the EU last week making some concession on the Irish backstop. Obviously didn’t happen because they want us to remain in the EU.

Our first negotiation point should have been "EU invoices are on hold until we get an acceptable deal"

Yes, because nothing declares your intentions to the rest of the world markets as a reliable, honest trading partner, than reneging on legal obligations to your existing ones.

You really should be a lawyer. You're wasted as a troll.

Really!!

Sorry for not reading you post accurately.


As for the UK "out negotiating the EU", not a flippin' chance mate. Have you been asleep for the last 2+ years ?
They drew Mrs May into accepting the backstop, which has effectively prevented any agreement.

The EU work not as a free market, other than amongst it's members but, to "best" protect their own market.

Yes, in my opinion.

I'm a troll because I don't agree with you?

No. It's because no-one can be a stupid as you purport to be.

How am I stupid?

Insults again?

You are talking about Mrs May who simply is incompetent - she is no representative of what is possible to negotiate. Once you agree the money up front, no deal next what have you left to bargain with?

So the McCarthyite Heaton-Harris resigns 18 months later than he should.

To be fair, I assumed it was TIC to provoke the lefties. Like that little run of posts when you pretended not to have access to an internet search engine.

The latest rumour is that if/when the May-Corbyn talks break down, she'll push for a preference vote with the options of revoke, JC's plan, her deal and no deal.

The set-up will provide fun for game theorists everywhere.

One round, single vote, winner-takes-all will drag MPs to the middle ground. Sequential elimination, probably similar eventually - and that's probably most sensible (least fun!). If they have an ordered preference vote, it actually matters whether it is 4, 3, 2, 1 or 3, 2, 1, 0 - for the relative value of first to second to third choice votes. For example 4, 3, 2, 1 potentially provides greater incentive to those in the middle to give their second vote to revoke or no deal, if they think it has little chance of winning, to give their first choice the best chance of beating what is their real second choice. However, if too many do it, there's the risk of them accidentally ending up with their third preference. Life is a bit simpler at the two edges, but by compromising and putting your second choice first, you can improve its chances and the expense of your least favoured options.

So much convoluted fun!

Is Mrs May's move to involve Corbyn a genuine move for reconciliation and to find some common ground or, a political master stroke ?
She has finally united her own party in indignation and this "could" just about get her deal over the line, albeit with a little bit of help form any staunch Brexitiers within the Labour party.
Although she is effectively "a dead man walking" and will be ousted just as soon as the withdrawal agreement is over the line, for the first time, I can see her getting this through.
Despite the positive words after her meeting with Corbyn, I dont expect her to change tack and going forward with Labours deal (with a customs union), would destroy the Conservatives completely.

This one ran well past the 100-page point but has recently gone dormant. Anyone wishing to start another Brexit thread, feel free to do so.