I continue to equate them with Israel because they are Israeli-occupied settlements, Israeli state-financed and Israeli state-protected.
It sems as though you are making out that they are merely Jewish people who happen to live in Palestine, I am saying this is not the case, they may well be Jewish (in fact almost certainly are Jewish) but that is not the point, it is Israeli-state-sponsored invasion.

[url=http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/10/03/gaza-arbitrary-arrests-torture-unfair-trialslovely people[/url ,just the sort of neighbours we would all want to have, eh?

Yes much better to shoot them like the israelis do.

My mind must be playing tricks on me, but according to most news reports rockets came from Gaza FIRST and continue to be fired into populated areas of Israel, you cannot blame Israel for having better technology, unless of course you feel a dead Jewish kid is not as important than a dead Arab kid. I feel for the innocent Palastinians, but they voted these nut jobs in KNOWING what they would do. If my neighbour kept throwing stones into my garden when my grandkids were in it, I would sooner or later jump over the fence and knock the crap out of him.

Nope, that would be impossible, they predated the creation of Israel.

Israel was first formed in 11th century BC not 1948 if you take history as written.

Those guys are even worse! I hate long ago peoples with their ancient ways.

Though without getting into that debate i did mean prior to the modern state of Israel

I know, just practicing my pedantry, it seems to flourish on here.

I think [iall[/i kids lives are important, unlike quite a few on here.
I'm also in Hedon today so I might try lobbing a few stones over your fence, just to see if your 'all mouth and no trousers'.

Give over, they are new houses, for recently-moved families, built using Israeli government cash.

There is to be a ceasfire at 7pm tonight. Hopefully it'll last and get the two sides together and sort something out.

You forgot the bit about the recently bulldozed Palestinian houses to create the space.

Another helpful map:



Full size link [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Westbankjan06.jpgHERE[/url

A ' Victory '

I honestly have no idea what you're going on about.


Only one of us is living in a fantasy land of our own creation, and only one of us has even [imentioned[/i equality of suffering. I'll give you a clue - it isn't me.

And your analogy with events in North and South America sucks. The events aren't even remotely comparable for a whole variety of reasons and even making the attempt indicates you basic lack of comprehension.


Once again you miss the point by a country mile. Who even mentioned a commitment to 'nuclear safety'? Or even that there were no circumstances under which nukes would be used? My point was that the geographical proximity of Gaza makes it just as unlikely a target for a nuclear strike as the West Bank.

Anyway - I guess we can all hope that the current ceasefire last longer than most. Although with both sides wittering on about 'victory' I can't say I'm optimistic.

Why?
In particular, North America in what is now the USA.
Indigeneous population moved aside to make way for settlers ... and when they fight back they are met with massively violent retribution.

Sounds similar to me.

Please, trace the conversation back.

It's superficially similar - which is why it was used - but only if you choose to ignore important cultural and legal differences between the two situations.

I have.
You seem to be saying that Jewish settlements in the West Bank are not Israeli settlements.
That is what I say is incorrect.

Have I misinterpreted what you said?

Carry on with differences please ...

I am referring specifically to the map which i quoted, which used Israeli and Jewish as synonyms. They clealry couldnt not have been Israeli settlements, because the reason they are labelled Jewish, and not Isreali is because at the time, the state of Israel did not exist.

I said, that I didn’t think that specific map was helpful, or useful, or right, to equate a jewish settlement with the state of Israell, especially as there couldn’t possibly be a link between the two as the state of Israel didn’t exist at the time. I went on to say you could probably produce a similar one showing the growth of islam in the UK, but I probably wouldn’t like the people who would choose to do that nor there reasons for doing so.

Okey Dokey...

For a start, the history of the colonisation of North America and what happen to the indigenous peoples is a lot more complex and nuanced than you and Mugwump appear to think. [url=http://www.shmoop.com/native-american-history/This site[/url provides some interesting reading.

Next up, the native American tribes had no concept of soldiers and civilians. All members of an enemy tribe were legitimate targets during hostilities, and hence all 'white' settlers were legitimate targets during the periods of conflict between them.

Further, the level of coordination between war bands was frequently very loose indeed and if some overstepped the mark by the standards of the day it would rarely have been the result of a deliberate policy by whatever leadership was in force at the time.

Now the blindingly obvious one...

Hamas and Israel are operating, at least notionally, within the framework of International Law. This defines what we, globally, now deem acceptable or not. Attacks against civilian targets are not acceptable. The same did not apply during the time of the early settlement of North America.

That's all I have time for at the moment.

Anyone opened a book yet on the next time Israel will decide it's necessary to murder a few children? The next election after this coming one, perhaps? After all, it's usually just before an election.

I hope CORNISH doesn't see this as he'll go mad.

According to the BBC news today, Israel are observing the ceasefire while 20 rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza, if one of these lands on a primary school, it could be a lot of dead kids. Fortunately they won't be Arab kids, just Jews.

This map?



Far from conflating Jewish and Israeli land, it seems pretty clear to me: prior to the creation of the state of Israel, Jewish occupied land is labeled as such. Follwing the creation of the state of Israel, Israeli occupied and controlled land is labeled as such. It may have helped if they had produced a map for each year since 1946 but that's hardly practical is it