The last 20 or so comments show just how messed up parliamentary democracy is, there aren't viable leaders on any side. This, OUR, Country is screwed.

And it's only taken 9 years for the Tories to get us to this point. Just think how things will be if they get another 9 years.

This isn't just down to the Conservatives (no such thing as Tories/Whigs for the last 200 years plus). Try reading some history.

Sorry pal, it is entirely down to the nutters in blue.

After nine years they haven't even got one saving grace to their credit, just a series of calamities. They've even managed to bring about the first fall in longevity since records began.

It's only took one referendum and them having to make and agree on a democratic decision made by the public, and none of them have got a clue how to proceed. I agree the way May went about it was really alienating and the wrong way for a decision such as this. However, this is a failure across the house not just the Tories IMO.

The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more.

Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.

The Tories are the party "in control" but, they haven't got a clue.
If Mrs May cant manage to find agreement within her own cabinet, how can the finger of blame be pointed elsewhere.

IF there was consensus among the Tories and Labour and the SNP etc were scuppering their chances, then, fair enough, you could point the finger elsewhere. However, the current mess is pretty much ALL of Mrs May's own making. From the failed land grab at the snap election which broke the Tories own rules, to the abject way that SHE ignored EVERYONE else and chose her own path.

How she is still at the helm is just mind boggling and perhaps you could blame Corbyn for not having the wit to oust her but this is down to Mrs May, her utter lack of vision and total lack of party leadership and her inability to do the job of Prime Minister, albeit in difficult circumstances.

The middle ground clearly lays with some kind of customs union and this may not appease all of the Brexitiers but, I do believe that it could get through parliament and then could possibly be "sold" to the electorate.

Quote ="MGarbutt1986"The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more. Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.'" Although the original Whig party was dissolved in 1868, there is an extant successor organisation, founded in 2014, following the Camberwell Declaration. It is a registered political party, if one in no great rush. whigs.uk https://batterseatest123.files.wordpres ... ration.pdf The Conservative party is direct successor to the Tory party, and Tory is now a colloquialism, I fully except. However, would say that the Airlie Birds don’t really exist because it’s an informal usage?

Quote ="MGarbutt1986"The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more. Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.'" Although the original Whig party was dissolved in 1868, there is an extant successor organisation, founded in 2014, following the Camberwell Declaration. It is a registered political party, if one in no great rush. whigs.uk https://batterseatest123.files.wordpres ... ration.pdf The Conservative party is direct successor to the Tory party, and Tory is now a colloquialism, I fully except. However, would say that the Airlie Birds don’t really exist because it’s an informal usage?

Ignoring the fact that you've put his name through a blender - Chuka Umunna had a pop at the Labour leadership, but his arris fell out when he realised just how unpopular he was; so he's now a centrist, Tory enabling, banker funded representative of an offshore company, squatting in parliament, and holding the votes of his constituents to ransom for as long as possible in the Funny Tinge party. He would never, in a million years, get anywhere near the Labour leadership - and if in some Marvel universe alternate timeline he somehow did, the membership would collapse overnight.

Get real WC - this iteration of the Labour Party is a socialist movement - and no matter the best efforts of the MSM and sentimental Blairites to foist Yvette Cooper or Jess Phillips on us, those days are not coming back.

As a paid up member, I'm more than happy with JC as leader - and I'd be very content to eventually see Rebecca Long-Bailey or Laura Pidcock pick up the mantle.

As for a new Tory leader - I see no value in any of them; Raab being the least credible by virtue of being Raab - and Gove being most likely, given that he's very much Murdoch's man.

Umunna & Raab appeal to those who don't give a stuff, or have any idea, about their policies. They look & sort of talk well, without actually ever saying anything.

Like most senior politicians, on all sides.

Now it seems Mrs May is being held to ransom, "I'll vote for your deal if you give us a date you'll resign".

Can anyone see a MayDay deadline that then gets delayed coming up?

Parliament is a shambles.

In your opinion of course

That’s just another lazy generalisation. How come you hate Jeremy Corbyn so much if he hasn’t actually said or done anything? I accept that Cabinet ministers & shadow cabinet do get PR trained to say little of substance, & you can’t blame them when the MSM is waiting to distort anything that doesn’t suit their agenda. The Tories, in particular, going back to the later years of Thatcher’s cabinet do tend to be faceless, middle-aged white men, but there is metaphorically, & even literally, a bit more colour as the vultures circle. There are plenty of personalities in the shadow cabinet, a number I am sure you have expressed disgust at. Again, lazily, you say on all sides. There are some excellent politicians in the Libs, SNP & Greens.

No poop Sherlock.

aren't forums all about opinion?

I woul say anyone who votes Labour is an idiot, and it is just an opinion.

I wish at the next GE we could get a Brewsters Millions vote, "none of the above"!

Were all allowed a senior moment

Corbyn is a dinosaur, and again, there is no such thing as the TORIES, only lazy people refer to THE CONSERVATIVES as such. But Idiot Labour voters always use that term.

You've clearly missed your vocation. Have you never considered a career in the diplomatic sector?

Nope, just like you have never considered yourself a comedian/satirist.

I couldn't "do" diplomacy if I tried, same as I don't "do" meetings, I about as much use at negotiating as Teresa May!

How do you know if he hasn't said anything?
Ahem, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Ahem. A Tory. He pre-dates pelycosaurs.

We need those who look the part, like Umunna & Raab. That's what is important.

Like I said, we need a complete overhaul of parliament, you can keep making this about political bias all you want, it really isn't adding to the value of the conversation.

I think that you are being sarcastic, although it's hard to tell with the written word.
However, although it shouldn't be the case, the look of someone IS important. Unfortunately, in a media driven world, presentation is everything and looking the part is just a small aspect of this.
If you look at Corbyn 3/4 years ago and compare with now, he is far better presented. mind you, I still dont agree with his politics so, maybe he wasted his time



Back to Brexit, it appears that "the lunatics have taken over the asylum"

There is one thing you can say for Mrs May's leadership, she has certainly helped us to see how Parliament "works" and it was interesting to listen to how cabinet meetings are becoming more about the Tory party than the country.

Lots of very nervous ministers and a government that, despite being ahead in the polls, is fearing a major backlash when there finally is an Election.

The look of someone is only important because the media has obsessed on it for so long, that we've been conditioned to go along with it.

Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether Mr Corbyn wears an anorak, if at the same time he's funding the NHS, sorting homelessness, fixing public services and ending wealth inequality.