I'm not a lefty (although the loony is open to debate), but the vast majority of newspaper sales and associated website hits will be to the Daily Mail and Sun. So it is legitimate to say that anti EU and pro-Brexit rhetoric was far more widely available to the masses than remain. The available reach of the anti-EU message surely can't be denied.

It is uncomfortable I agree, but I give them some credit for having even the pretense of an agreed vision for Brexit (albeit a really rather sketchy and dreadful one). The Tories meanwhile are in open civil war and have no coherent single voice whatsoever.

I broadly agree with you about the best outcome now on the table. This was always going to be a dog to get through, as you say. While I'm not a huge fan of May's deal, it is the least risky and distasteful way forward at this point, imo. In its favour:

1. It isn't absolutely terrible, and is certainly better than no deal
2. It delivers on the democratic mandate for Brexit and couldn't fairly be called a BRINO (yes, there's the backstop, but remove that an the underlying problem remains)
3. We can get this part of the process over and done with now

So while it'd be too much to say I support it, i accept it. Unfortunately, I fear we're going to end with something worse because everybody in power is trapped in one way or another. Maybe, at the last moment our MPs, including May, will realise that and it'll get through, but somebody has to take the first step, make the first minor concession - there are some strong incentives acting against that, and it seems unlikely [utoday[/u. They say 'a week is long time in politics', and while a lot has to change, if one domino falls... you never know.

The whole threat of self-immolation to get the EU to 'blink', I read completely differently. It had little-to-no value initially, the EU haven't blinked (both imo, of course), and at this point what more would we ask for anyway? The only request we're allowed now is for a longer extension, and that'd be to go in a defined direction more palatable to them so would hardly be 'blinking'.

If May's deal is voted down again, our options are no deal on the 12th of April or a request for an extension based on a new position that they approve of. With respect, [uI think[/u you so expect them to blink that you're seeing things that aren't there. We, the UK, are free to choose, but only from those three options. At this stage, narrower options help us - Thank EU.



Also, I'm a bit tired of the threat of hard right being used to guide us anywhere and force the rest of us to blink. Cuddling up to nutters doesn't seem to be working for May, and I think there's a lesson there. If we have to base our politics from here on, on managing bigoted and fascistic tendencies from the fringes then we're doomed anyway.

And it's right wing nutjobs who pretend it isn't major factor. Well the brighter ones pretend, the average Mail, Express, Sun, Star reader is too thick or myopic to question anything.
Most Brexiteer's views on the EU, forriners & law is based on ignorance not experience. You are perhaps the only exception to that rule on here. The others are just simplistic, one-dimensional nutjobs.
I listened to David Starkey. I watched Turkey's voting for Christmas.

Thank You

It's a reason but not the only reason. The madder sections of the ERG aren't going to vote for May's deal, if no deal, which they prefer, is the immediate default. Giving the UK a (tiny) bit of time to come up with a plan B, might give the ERG pause. It feels unlikely to me, and its a double edged sword, in that it eases the pressure on the Remainers and Softer Brexiters - However, May has gone all in on delivering a Tory-DUP version of Brexit, and that is her deal's only, seemingly slim, chance IMO.

Downing Street is reportedly drawing up plans to give MPs a vote on seven alternative options to Theresa May's deal next week that could lead to a soft Brexit.

A senior minister has apparently leaked that MPs would get to choose between revoking Article 50, a second referendum, the Prime Minister's deal, her deal with a customs union, the deal with a customs union and single market, a standard free-trade agreement, or a no-deal Brexit.

It was also said MV3 will only be put forward if there is a realistic chance of winning, which almost certainly means it won't be brought forward at all now.

Why this wasn’t done 6/12 months ago beggars belief. The PM has an awful lot to answer for.

There was always a tension between her need to hold her party together and to deliver Brexit. The only way she could see of doing that was to manage the country to the point of crisis, and then hope that at the last minute either her own MPs would step back from the precipice or Labour would fall on its sword and save the country at its own expense. Even now, with the benefit of hindsight, it'd be difficult to say it wasn't/isn't her best shot.

The question now is, when and if that is seen to have finally and definitively failed, can she bring herself to do anything else? The failed Tory vote of no-confidence, and having very little left to lose could give her some freedom. I think the prospect of giving an inch to Labour would make her gag, and concessions to Holyrood would probably cost more Tory support than it'd gain SNP votes. Can she even bring herself to try something different? Will she even be relevant a week from now?

Its a very good post - most people with an ounce of decency would have gone by now - her position has been so undermind its an embarrassment to her. How can she face the EU with any kind of gravitas when they no she is not respected by her party and the opposition. Her power base has simply eroded before her.


The best thing now is she goes and the Tories call a GE once a leader has been elected. There are 4/5 very good candidates and this needs addressing urgently.

You cannot have a government that doesn't govern - its a basic premise of democracy.

Those "4/5 very good candidates" wont want the top job until the first phase of Brexit is done as it could lead to a very short stint at the helm.
Just as soon as the deal is done it will be pistols at dawn.
It will be interesting to see just who is in the mix though.
Boris would be like a daft version of Trump, Gove is an utter slime ball, Hunt, no thanks, Rudd - maybe, Rees Mogg and maybe Raab ??
Have I missed anyone

Would you want someone from the Tory right or a candidate that was bothered about the country as a whole ?

Rabb is a good call - he looks well he speaks well. Dan Poulter, Nicky Morgan

We need a candidate who will support growth but is mindfullof a more even wealth distribution.

Business needs to be encouraged to grow and prosper otherwise everything stagnates. Lower CT helps one of the reasons for leaving the EU - sadly that will now not happen.

Damn and blast, was looking forward to a nice day working on my veg plot and walking the dog. However have just received an emergency call from my pals on the People’s vote march in London. Apparently they are struggling to obtain enough hummus, falafel and Vegan food to last the day. Don’t worry lads and lassies I am on my way. Up the workers.

Seriously ??
On the other hand you could join Farage, with his hit squad and razor wire, ready to eliminate all those who dont fit into his white supremacist mould. No foreign accents or spongers, unless they are saving someone's life







He's probably rallying his troops to have another pop at The Germans

Nigel Farage, not bothered about him either way. I get just as much entertainment from him as the other factions in this never ending comic drama. Looking forward to Lord Heseltine adressing the marchers, that’s providing he can find his way from his country estate. See Blair’s war monger Campbell is on the March. Wonder if he remembers a miiion people marching to prevent the Iraq war, possibly not.

According to odds checker, it is:
Johnson, 5-1
Gove, 6-1
Raab, 9-1
Hunt, 9-1
Javid, 11-1

And the long list of the rest at 25-1 or longer.

Johnson is a scary joke of an option, and is the dog chasing a car. Labour would be pretty much obliged to replace Corbyn with Batman. More seriously, Johnson flouncing out of cabinet and a likely mini-rush to the independent group, means I think he faces quite a headwind. Bookies might not be daft, but many punters are and indirectly they set the odds.

Gove is slippery when dry and combines Tyrion’s looks with Cersei’s cunning. I’d give him half a chance, because he’s stayed in cabinet, but he lacks a bit of natural gravitas.

Raab is an extreme free-market, small state Conservative, and typical of the breed thinks he’s cleverer than he is. However, that doesn’t disbar him. He’d be a popular choice with brexiteers and isn’t an overblown caricature, who’d trigger a exodus of moderates. Could happen.

Hunt. It was bad when Cameron couldn’t remember which football team he pretended to support, but forgetting which country your wife is from is a special kind of useless. I’d give him a very good chance with the MPs.

Javid, more competent than Hunt, but also Muslim and brown which might be a hard sell to some sections of the grassroots. However, that’d really wee on a lot of race-card playing liberals’ chips, with the benefit that he’s no more progressive than the rest.

Johnson omg no, couldn't do Home Secretary
Gove (watch your back worse than Johnson
Hunt was rubbish for the NHS

For me would like either Raab or Javid

Lisa Nandy for Labour leader. Just thought I would throw that in

If I were forced to choose and did so in good faith, i’d put Gove, Hunt and Javid way ahead of Johnson (scattergun narcissist) and Raab (thicko ideologue).

Of the first three, gosh this is uncomfortable... Gove, maybe. Not much in it.

Thornberry is the favourite to replace Corbyn, which’d seem a safe, sensible option to me.

You can try all you want to make out that the hundreds of thousands of people marching today are all humus eating lefties but we know this isn't true. My mum went down on one of the Leeds for Europe coaches today. She's a working class woman from east end park and she's not a Labour voter.

The dawning realisation of this brexit disaster is extending across all classes and political affiliations.

Maybe not a popular choice in Rochester, mind you.

I'm just glad that you're not selecting leaders of either party.

Gove is the next worst option to Johnson and Thornbury ?? I'd rather have Corbyn and he's awful.
Unfortunately, the move to the left under Corbyn, has cost Labour most of the decent alternatives, they've either left, retired or jumped ship.
I actually turn the TV off when Thornbury starts speaking.

Politicians have no personality of strong beliefs these days, it's all about repeating sound bites, regardless of the question that may have been put to them.

My politics ddint agree with Skinner and Wedgewood Benn but, at least they would answer a question and have a genuine opinion. Very few, of either party, do that any more

It’s very easy to say what you don’t want, as we’ve seen with Brexit. Who’d be your choices from the likely candidates?

As for the good old days of politics versus now, politicians evolve to the electoral environment they find themselves in, and that is largely created by the voters. It’s maybe cyclical, and that’s why we’re getting throwbacks like John ‘Churchill and Tonypandy’ McDonnell, and JRM, the honourable member for the 18th Century. A bit of panto is fun, after years of smooth evasiveness, so long as it doesn’t descend too far into a chaotic inferno of hate. Too late? Oops.

I suggested Raab and Rudd as maybe's

As for Labour, the best 2 candidates that they've had post Blair, have been Milliband (David) but, they chose Ed ?? and Chucka Amunna but he didn't want to stay Keir Starmer, were he to stand, has the look of a leader or Shami Chakrabati, most of the rest have been nothing more than Corbyn wind bags and struggle to do anything other than relentlessly trot out pre prepared phrases, even when they are not in line with any questions being asked or relevant to the topic of the day and Thornbury is one of the worst offenders.

Okay, I’ll back-off on Thornbury. I did say ‘safe’ rather than ‘inspiring’, but fair enough.

I know it’s a bit like choosing between cat poo and dog poo, but I’d still take Gove ahead of Raab, everyday of the week.

I'm not going to back off from Nandy, what ever happens re Brexit I think she has really shown admirably even though she is a retainer and Labour I would vote for her if she was my local MP.

How can you say you would take Gove over anyone mate, he makes my skin crawl. Raab for me