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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22307926
Although the item is about the EU, my eye was caught by the stat for the UK ... i.e. the decline in growth and GDP in the UK having raised the ratio of debt-to-GDP in Britain from 52% to 93% between 2008 and now.
This was entirely predictable and I cannot believe that Osborne, Cameron, Clegg and Cable could claim that it's a surprise.
Indeed, Clegg [udid[/u predict before the election, (as did Alistair Darling), that the Conservatives were going to go too far, too fast ... just that Clegg changed his mind [uafter[/u the election and after the promise of a deputy prime ministership, thereby going back on the main plank of his policy. (which, incidentally, to my mind reduced the validity of the ConDem mandate).
Clegg did, of course, say early this year that maybe they should have paid more attention to growth and GDP in the early days of the coalition, thereby u-turning his view for the second time.
Make up your mind Nick !
The IMF is not noted for being a soft touch but even Christine Lagard has been urging for months now that an easing-off of austerity might not be a bad idea (which is about as strong as IMF language gets).
Just what will it take for Osborne to desist from his ideological campaign and actually do something that makes economic sense?
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22307926
Although the item is about the EU, my eye was caught by the stat for the UK ... i.e. the decline in growth and GDP in the UK having raised the ratio of debt-to-GDP in Britain from 52% to 93% between 2008 and now.
This was entirely predictable and I cannot believe that Osborne, Cameron, Clegg and Cable could claim that it's a surprise.
Indeed, Clegg [udid[/u predict before the election, (as did Alistair Darling), that the Conservatives were going to go too far, too fast ... just that Clegg changed his mind [uafter[/u the election and after the promise of a deputy prime ministership, thereby going back on the main plank of his policy. (which, incidentally, to my mind reduced the validity of the ConDem mandate).
Clegg did, of course, say early this year that maybe they should have paid more attention to growth and GDP in the early days of the coalition, thereby u-turning his view for the second time.
Make up your mind Nick !
The IMF is not noted for being a soft touch but even Christine Lagard has been urging for months now that an easing-off of austerity might not be a bad idea (which is about as strong as IMF language gets).
Just what will it take for Osborne to desist from his ideological campaign and actually do something that makes economic sense?
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"
Just what will it take for Osborne to desist from his ideological campaign and actually do something that makes economic sense?'"
Nothing will make him change his mind.
The "austerity" measures introduced by the tory element of the government and wholeheartedly endorsed by their LimpDem partners has nothing to do with restoring the fortunes of our nation. Instead, they are an ideologically-driven agenda to shrink the state at the real expense of the most vulnerable and to the benefit of their chums in the private sector, who will be the very real winners when they are trousering the large cheques countersigned by Camoron, Gideon and Quisling Clegg. |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Nothing will make him change his mind.
The "austerity" measures introduced by the tory element of the government and wholeheartedly endorsed by their LimpDem partners has nothing to do with restoring the fortunes of our nation. Instead, they are an ideologically-driven agenda to shrink the state at the real expense of the most vulnerable and to the benefit of their chums in the private sector, who will be the very real winners when they are trousering the large cheques countersigned by [uCamoron, Gideon and Quisling Clegg[/u.'"
Who won't, of course, end up with directorships of any private sector service-providing companies when they quit politics. Perish the thought.
(Of course it could be argued that Clegg has already quit politics) |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Nothing will make him change his mind.
The "austerity" measures introduced by the tory element of the government and wholeheartedly endorsed by their LimpDem partners has nothing to do with restoring the fortunes of our nation. Instead, they are an ideologically-driven agenda to shrink the state at the real expense of the most vulnerable and to the benefit of their chums in the private sector, who will be the very real winners when they are trousering the large cheques countersigned by Camoron, Gideon and Quisling Clegg.'"
This. |
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They haven't started on the cold baths, fagging and whipping us round the back of our bare legs with wet towels yet.
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The British public clearly do not think austerity has gone far enough. Appparently, per a poll reported this morning 72% of Tory voters think politicians are reckless in spending taxpayer money, 69% of Lib Dem voters and a whopping 79% of Labour voters. When asked the question differently, only 19% thought they spent money wisely.
In essence, Labour have nowhere to go on this issue as the Tories are in step with public opinion.
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| Quote ="Dally"The British public clearly do not think austerity has gone far enough. Appparently, per a poll reported this morning 72% of Tory voters think politicians are reckless in spending taxpayer money, 69% of Lib Dem voters and a whopping 79% of Labour voters. When asked the question differently, only 19% thought they spent money wisely.
In essence, Labour have nowhere to go on this issue as the Tories are in step with public opinion.'"
Which poll is that and what was the question asked in it? |
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Quote ="Dally"www.cityam.com/article/british-public-slowly-becoming-more-fiscally-conservative'"
Oh dear, a survey conducted on behalf of 4th Agenda and, lo and behold, it "proves" that the majority of people are in favour of a fiscal cliff.
Never mind that a fiscal cliff is (coincidentally, of course) the the main demand of 4th Agenda, never mind that most people in the UK don't know what fiscal cliff means and never mind that the question wasn't actually about this government but just about "government" in general.
Only a month ago another poll showed that only 20% thought the coalition's policies were good for the economy.
58% thought they were harmful.
www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... inion-poll |
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Quote ="Dally"www.cityam.com/article/british-public-slowly-becoming-more-fiscally-conservative'"
Oh dear, a survey conducted on behalf of 4th Agenda and, lo and behold, it "proves" that the majority of people are in favour of a fiscal cliff.
Never mind that a fiscal cliff is (coincidentally, of course) the the main demand of 4th Agenda, never mind that most people in the UK don't know what fiscal cliff means and never mind that the question wasn't actually about this government but just about "government" in general.
Only a month ago another poll showed that only 20% thought the coalition's policies were good for the economy.
58% thought they were harmful.
www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... inion-poll | |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Oh dear, a survey conducted on behalf of 4th Agenda and, lo and behold, it "proves" that the majority of people are in favour of a fiscal cliff.
Never mind that a fiscal cliff is (coincidentally, of course) the the main demand of 4th Agenda, never mind that most people in the UK don't know what fiscal cliff means and never mind that the question wasn't actually about this government but just about "government" in general.
'"
A well-informed critique of a poll whose results do not fit your agenda! |
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| Quote ="Dally"A well-informed critique of a poll whose results do not fit your agenda!'"
It certainly fits their agenda.
I mean, since when has the question "Do you think the government is too reckless with taxpayers' money" been a recipe for valuable insight?
No matter which government is in power and regardless of the political persuasion of those of whom you ask, you'll get pretty much the same answer. |
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As "austerity" measures have proved an utter and complete disaster across the whole of Europe, can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?
Osborne and his Eurochums remind me of Basil Fawlty giving his economy car a good thrashing, and to as much effect.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"As "austerity" measures have proved an utter and complete disaster across the whole of Europe, can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?
Osborne and his Eurochums remind me of Basil Fawlty giving his economy car a good thrashing, and to as much effect.'"
Things are not great in the UK, but have you seen how they are in France? |
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Austerity gone too far? No.
Same old trolling by the OP.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Austerity gone too far? No.
Same old trolling by the OP.'"
Hardly, he linked to a news report - you might not agree with it in which case say so, but its a valid news report by a valid news media outlet, he hasn't invented something to deliberately inflame a situation.
You really have to learn how to handle yourself in a social situation young man. |
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| Quote ="The Video Ref"Things are not great in the UK, but have you seen how they are in France?'"
Yes. I have close relatives in France. This answers my question in what respect, exactly, though? To recap:
"Can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?" |
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| Quote ="Dally"The British public clearly do not think austerity has gone far enough. Appparently, per a poll reported this morning 72% of Tory voters think politicians are reckless in spending taxpayer money, 69% of Lib Dem voters and a whopping 79% of Labour voters. When asked the question differently, only 19% thought they spent money wisely.
In essence, Labour have nowhere to go on this issue as the Tories are in step with public opinion.'"
Seeing as Labour are ahead in all the opinion polls it suggests the public trust Labour to spend taxpayers money best now and are starting to ask questions why the Tories are being reckless with things like Thatchers funeral. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Austerity gone too far? No...'"
Deep insight there.
Love the way you back it up with reasoned argument.
Quote ="Ajw71"...Same old trolling by the OP.'"
I see, so mentioning genuine stats about how the debt-to-GDP ratio has worsened is now trolling is it?
Dearie me. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Austerity gone too far? No.
Same old trolling by the OP.'"
Since you seem to have missed the following:
Quote ="Mintball"
Second – this is an ideal opportunity to make a larger reminder to some of our trolls that, in general, this has been a tad more civilised a place recently. So, a) let's keep that going. b) If any of you have nothing more to contribute than the same 'arguments', over and over, illustrating only that either you are incapable of understanding what has been posted in response previously or have no inclination to do so, then action will be taken. Such an approach contributes absolutely nothing of value to any discussion.'"
And:
Quote ="Mintball"He very kindly reposted a comment that I had made, in general, on another thread.
You have a choice.
Learn from it. Or you're history.
It's entirely up to you.'" |
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Ok I won't voice my opinion any more. I don't want to be banned or labelled a troll.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Ok I won't voice my opinion any more. I don't want to be banned or labelled a troll.'"
I'm sure you're clever enough to understand the difference between voicing an opinion and trolling in a manner that simply drives numerous threads down the same blind alleys. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Austerity gone too far? No.
Same old trolling by the OP.'"
Right ... so what's your opinion on the debt-to-GDP ratio?
What's your opinion on the continuation of the recession due to ignoring the effects of imposed-austerity on the economy?
If you are not trolling, you'll have some sort of reasoned argument for your thus-far-not-expressed opinion, let's hear what it is. |
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| Quote ="Dally"The British public clearly do not think austerity has gone far enough. Appparently, per a poll reported this morning 72% of Tory voters think politicians are reckless in spending taxpayer money, 69% of Lib Dem voters and a whopping 79% of Labour voters. When asked the question differently, only 19% thought they spent money wisely.
In essence, Labour have nowhere to go on this issue as the Tories are in step with public opinion.'"
Completely different issues. I think politicians are reckless spenders of taxpayer money, but also think the austerity measures are too severe, albeit in the wrong areas.
I don't think any political party has the ability to solve the UK deficit and debt problems without fear of losing votes or losing other politicians support - basically stemming from greed. To say "the Tories are in step with public opinion" as a conclusion to the statistics produced from this survey is completely laughable seen as Tories are politicians as well! If anything, as the Tories are in charge of the cheque book, it would suggest the opposite. Try to see past party politics! |
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"
"Can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?"'"
Spend more than earn = bad.
Earn more than spend = good.
That seems to be the basic concept behind it. But we all knew that anyway. |
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| Imo the case for austerity was always pretty weak, but it is now almost definitely causing much more harm than good.
The problem is that politicians all around the developed world (nobody more so than Cameron and Osborne) have invested so much political capital into austerity, that there is no way for them to turn away from it without admitting they have made a string of absolutely shocking decisions, that have had disastrous consequences.
I have no idea why Labour aren't absolutely nailing the conservatives with this. All I can think is that they don't back themselves to be able to convince the public with facts and evidence, vs the Tories 'common sense' soundbites of: belt tightening, maxing credit cards etc.
Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"As "austerity" measures have proved an utter and complete disaster across the whole of Europe, can someone give me at least a superficially plausible reason why anyone might expect such measures might ever work?'"
The confidence fairy. If only the government wasn't spending so much money (risking turning us into the new Greece), then big business would have the confidence to spend and invest again, and that would lead to a private sector lead recovery like the one we're going through now... oh wait. |
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