Quote ="El Barbudo":wmsomba6Quote ="BiffasBoys":wmsomba6The banks worked within the regulatory framework they were bound by. How would you define unjustifiable. What is your fascination with the U.S. It's got nothing to do with the UK. The problems in the UK are entirely the fault of the last Labour government & it's first Chancellor of the Exchequer <etc etc>...'"
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Riiiiight ... the economic crisis in the UK that precipitated recession in the UK is/was not part of the same economic crisis that precipitated the recession across the Western economies in the same way at the same moment ... OK, got it
BTW, an example of "unjustifiable" is making bets that you don't have the capitalisation to bear if you lose.
But I guess that never happened either, eh?
Quote ="BiffasBoys":wmsomba6Sufficiently? He stripped away regulation & controls that were already in place...'"
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Which regulation and controls were these?
Bear in mind we are looking for the specific controls that would have prevented the financial crash, not some airy-fairy general (and fictional) mentions of "controls" ... now's your chance to be specific for once.
Which controls did Brown take away that would have prevented the crash?
Quote ="BiffasBoys":wmsomba6He set up the useless FSA. It doesn't matter one scintilla what anyone said, it's what he did that brought the crash in the UK... <snip> ... Before Brown came along, interest rates were controlled by the Chancellor & the Governor BofE & they fluctuated according to the demand for money & it's supply. Brown killed that mechanism of interest rate control & stripped away controls on lending.'"
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Okaaay ... so giving responsibility [u:wmsomba6to[/u:wmsomba6 the BoE (interest rates) was a mistake and taking responsibility [u:wmsomba6from[/u:wmsomba6 the BoE (Financial regulation) was also a mistake.
Hmmm.
Quote ="El Bardudo":wmsomba6Just that earlier you said, in one of your "facts", that Gordon Brown took control of interest rates [u:wmsomba6away[/u:wmsomba6 from the BoE.
I'm just wondering whether I dreamed the handing over of interest rate control TO the BoE, by Gordon Brown, back in 1997...'"
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Quote ="BiffasBoys":wmsomba6Perhaps I worded that wrongly. He broke with a 300 year old system to cut the B of E free to do it's own thing, as long as it kept inflation around his target. As long as that figure, which was also manipulated by changing how it was calculated, was good for him, he completely ignores what was going on.'"
:wmsomba6'" :wmsomba6
"Worded that wrongly"???? ... bloody hell, I'll say you did ... 100% wrongly
First you say he was wrong to take it away from the BoE.
Then, when you are told that he actually gave it TO the BoE ... suddenly that was the mistake instead.
Why don't you admit that it doesn't really matter who did what or when, that you don't actually require reasons, you just know that EVERYTHING was Brown's fault?
"completely ignored what was going on"? ... to have ignored it, he must have known about it ... so, go on then, you tell us what was "going on" and how he and the rest of the Western economies who spotted it too and "completely ignored" it
You see Sunshine, where he actually went wrong was not in [u:wmsomba6taking away[/u:wmsomba6 regulation (he didn't) but in [u:wmsomba6not tightening[/u:wmsomba6 the regulation that he inherited from the previous bunch of spivs.
(Here's your homework ... Google "Thatcher" and "Big Bang" and "deregulation" and see if you come up with "tighter regulation"icon_wink.gif.
The problem was actually that neither he [u:wmsomba6nor other Western governments[/u:wmsomba6 (or you ... or me) realised was the degree of inter-relation between banks and financial institutions even in different countries.
The banks etc were busily trading in financial instruments which were basically packaged turds, the contents of which governmental agencies were, largely, unaware.
Whilst the FSA (for example) was busy looking at individual institutions, no-one noticed how hugely dangerous this inter-relation was (except the institutions themselves and they didn't actually care as it wasn't their own money they were gambling ... even to the point where Goldman Sachs Group sold $40bn of securities (containing sub-prime mortgages) [u:wmsomba6to its own clients[/u:wmsomba6 whilst, at the same time betting on a huge drop in the value of those securities. So, basically THEY KNEW they were selling turds ... to clients who paid them and trusted them).
Even the credit-rating agencies were giving this stuff top ratings.
But, I'm forgetting that this was obviously Gordon Brown's fault.
Of course, the Conservatives criticised him at that time for not [u:wmsomba6loosening[/uThe responsibility to act in the best interest of the economy by using interest rates to control the demand for lending...
Yeah, the average house price in the UK doubling in less than 3 years really was the fault of Lehmann Bros & nothing to do with the lenders de-regulated by Gordon Brown & the failure of the Chancellor to make sure interest rates rose to dampen down borrowing demand.
You know, that simple economic theory of supply & demand, so simple even Gordon couldn't follow it. Or his mate Ed.
'"
